Election in FL just got interesting; amendment to protect abortion and Marijuana are potentially on the ballot potentially in Nov.....
- Thread starter shonuff253
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The abortion issue has been constitutionally dealt with properly by SCOTUS. Now it is up to each state to decide how the people therein want to legislate access to it.
I urge conservatives to wake up and stop pretending it is the most significant issue at hand because it is not. Abortion is not the war. It is simply a battle. We are going to lose it.
Many more people favor less restrictive laws than most of you would prefer. But it's going to happen. Get over it and move on.
There are existential threats to the country which are more important in the immediate future. Stop crying over the heathens. They are of no consequence in the end.
Besides that, far more democRATs have abortions than Republicans. So consider the bright side. God is no respecter of persons. He knows exactly what He's doing.
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You may be right. I think the issue is that the issues that matter most to the most people….right now the republicans are winning. And the unpopular takes from the far left are so eye rolling, it turns off the working class Midwest.
I think Israel / Gaza is the democrats’ abortion. It splits the party.
She along with every other republican in the State are publicly opposing the bench ruling and saying it is out of step with the majority of Arizonans. This may conflict with some of their past rhetoric, but based on the media’s quick pushback on this, I suspect it like Trump’s statement on Monday is effective.
The surest sign that they are navigating the issue pretty well is the media’s rush to “but wait…..you said you want to outlaw abortion you can’t change your mind now”. Also the fact that some republicans are coming out against Trump’s statement is another good sign. Obviously the Dems and media would rather Trump preach a more prohibitive message. He’s not. And Arizona seems to be falling in line.
I fully expected more stories like this to blank the media landscape in the sunshine state this summer and fall. I expect all those northern transplants who moved to FL for the weather and tax free benefits to come out in force. It's may not be enough to get to the 60% threshold to protect woman's reproductive rights but could have a huge affect in the presidential. If FL falls it's over in November for Trump
Texas Supreme Court rules against woman who sought abortion hours after she says she’ll travel out of state
A state district judge granted the request last week, but the Texas Supreme Court directed the lower court to vacate its order Monday.www.nbcnews.com
Dobbs’s Confounding Effect on Abortion Rates
More than a dozen states have banned abortion. Why are rates still going up nationally?
Kind of sounds like an idiotic argument since abortions are up since the decision came out. You can spin this number however you would like, but it hurts both sides argument. It didn’t cut down on abortions for the right. And it makes the left look like total morons for saying things are more difficult. Sounds like this is easier than ever. Low, You asked for stats. 🤦♂️
Any number posted by the other libs in this thread now are deemed bs. These are really the only numbers that matter.
But it hurts kids transitioning too. More kids transitioning than ever. But, but some states are saying you can’t leave and get an abortion. People are leaving and getting abortions like candy even more than before. Put that on the f’ing ballot.
Low I do think like you pubs should cut their losses and meet in the middle here. Keep this from being an election issue. There is becoming less and less places to turn for the Dems to find soft spots. Polls show it. As does the current breathtaking desperation to get djt in as many courtrooms as possible
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Abortion decreased in states with bans and increased in states where there are no bans. But you have Republicans trying to reduce the numbers of states where there is no ban...case in point most recently AZ and FL. Florida will be especially impactful as it will be the last southern state outside of NC that has an extreme abortion ban. No access and travel become an issues and will reduce family planning options for women. You can try and spin the GOP as the "real" pro-choice party because you think States should make these choices for Americans but it's not going to work.
Dobbs’s Confounding Effect on Abortion Rates
More than a dozen states have banned abortion. Why are rates still going up nationally?www.theatlantic.com
Kind of sounds like an idiotic argument since abortions are up since the decision came out. You can spin this number however you would like, but it hurts both sides argument. It didn’t cut down on abortions for the right. And it makes the left look like total morons for saying things are more difficult. Sounds like this is easier than ever. Low, You asked for stats. 🤦♂️
Any number posted by the other libs in this thread now are deemed bs. These are really the only numbers that matter.
But it hurts kids transitioning too. More kids transitioning than ever. But, but some states are saying you can’t leave and get an abortion. People are leaving and getting abortions like candy even more than before. Put that on the f’ing ballot.
Low I do think like you pubs should cut their losses and meet in the middle here. Keep this from being an election issue. There is becoming less and less places to turn for the Dems to find soft spots. Polls show it. As does the current breathtaking desperation to get djt in as many courtrooms as possible
The more you hear media pissed off at Trump's moderate stance, instead pointing and looking at what was said in the past or broad statements like "he's gonna take away rights anyway," the more you know the new stance is probably working.
Dobbs’s Confounding Effect on Abortion Rates
More than a dozen states have banned abortion. Why are rates still going up nationally?
Kind of sounds like an idiotic argument since abortions are up since the decision came out. You can spin this number however you would like, but it hurts both sides argument. It didn’t cut down on abortions for the right. And it makes the left look like total morons for saying things are more difficult. Sounds like this is easier than ever. Low, You asked for stats. 🤦♂️
Any number posted by the other libs in this thread now are deemed bs. These are really the only numbers that matter.
But it hurts kids transitioning too. More kids transitioning than ever. But, but some states are saying you can’t leave and get an abortion. People are leaving and getting abortions like candy even more than before. Put that on the f’ing ballot.
Low I do think like you pubs should cut their losses and meet in the middle here. Keep this from being an election issue. There is becoming less and less places to turn for the Dems to find soft spots. Polls show it. As does the current breathtaking desperation to get djt in as many courtrooms as possible
Florida is not winnable.
Abortion splits the republican party to an extent, but do you really think it will keep hardline anti-abortion folks from voting for Trump? Those are the "non-college educated deplorables" your side talks about constantly.
The split issue on the democrat side is Israel / Gaza, and unlike the abortion issue on the right, I think this actually will translate to lost votes. The same folks who hate Biden's Israel support (or will be pissed if he reverses) are already pissed about grocery prices, the ability to borrow and buy a house, etc, etc. They secretly know that Trump's policies work better even if they are outwardly anti-Trump. They won't vote for him, but they sure as hell want more money in their pockets so they can live with not voting for Biden. RFK may provide a "guilt free" option.
I suspect as we've already seen in Arizona, the party will rally around a more moderate stance and piss on rulings like the AZ supreme court, giving the left and media nowhere to go.
I can understand why the left wants to focus on anything but the economy, border, etc....but rest assured that is why he is so underwater in polls, and the reason the anti-Christ will be president again come November.
The more articles you see trying to poke holes in Trump's abortion stance, the more you know it is working.
So that is how it works. Put it in the states hands. Doesn’t seemed to be hurting your cause. Since you love abortions. They have increased overall in numbers. You should celebrate. You love transitioning. That is increasing also all over the country and in overall numbers. So again you should be happy. Unless this comes with an agenda. Which it does. Only if it is bad for pubs and trump. Doesn’t matter what the numbers say. The numbers tell you this strategy is working for the left and not the right. Please continue to spin away at something with no spin possible.
the data bears out that this is a "how far do you have to drive to get an abortion" issue. Everything else is noise.
How far is too far to be forced to drive before it affects the person's ability to get this procedure. Florida has always been key when it comes to abortion access in the south due to its proximity. With RDS and the GOPs extreme law this will and has been shown to negatively impact women.
I don't necessarily disagree. My point is that it isn't the silver bullet that democrats want it to be. They very much wanted Trump to support some kind of national restriction. He didn't. And now they are mad.
Also - I suspect republicans in Florida and Arizona will publicly soften their stance on things like 6 weeks.
Isreal/Hamas issue isn't going to be as big of an impact for two reasons: 1) this is a Gen-Z/ Millennial issue and history shows they don't vote. They've never made a significant impact...see the Bernie Bros 2) Very small % of Dems see this issue as the single most important issue of their lifetime and nothing else matters. And those people are primarily on NYC and Cali so it's a wash. With Biden finally making a move against Bibi this won't be as significant an issue in November.
I do business with a lot of great Jewish folks, including an Israeli. I can tell you they do not like Trump but will vote for him if Biden turns on Israel. They are already pissed about it. The pro Gaza crowd in Michigan is real. Maybe it won't move the needle but it doesn't need to move much to make a big difference, especially when joe is already behind the 8 ball with auto workers (despite their "official" endorsement) and his EV push. One way or another he's gonna lose votes in Israel / Gaza.
It kind of has been the Silver Bullet and you prove my point by saying a 6 week stance is somehow a softening of their stance. It's still extreme. Have you already forgotten the disappointing 2022 midterms. That was supposed to be a Red Wave but was instead an embarrassment for the GOP. That doesn't happen if Roe isn't overturned. You combine that with a series of excellent job reports and the GOP should be extremely nervous. Can Trump stay on message and not use inflammatory language to friegnthen off suburbia...doubtful. And the GOP led House is the gift that keeps on giving Dems incredible sound bits to sendout to voters. You combine the side shows that are Trump and the GOP House and the right should be extremely nervous.
The Impact of Abortion on 2022 and Beyond
It's clear that the Supreme Court's June 2022 Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health decision had a significant impact on the midterms. But with whom, why and how has been a subject of speculation, hot takes and less-than-accurate exit poll data. However, over the last couple of weeks, I've been...
I've got a lot of Jewish friends as well and they foooking loath Bibi...loath! They want Biden to do more to get rid of Bibi and that's the majority feeling amongst American jews.
I am being a little pointed and just picking at sho. But the data shows that the effect is actually in reverse of what it is supposed to do. Putting it in states hands is actually the correct decision if you are a Democrat. This really has been a disaster for pubs. The left can’t package it that way however. If they do, they have to admit the court was right and the libs are wrong. Which will never happen. Thread got awfully quiet once the stats were brought into the equation. The left can’t even argue the right is spinning the numbers. Technically it hurts their cause. Mic drop.
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Shouldn't that be up to actual Israeli citizens & not POTUS?
It kind of has been the Silver Bullet and you prove my point by saying a 6 week stance is somehow a softening of their stance. It's still extreme. Have you already forgotten the disappointing 2022 midterms. That was supposed to be a Red Wave but was instead an embarrassment for the GOP. That doesn't happen if Roe isn't overturned. You combine that with a series of excellent job reports and the GOP should be extremely nervous. Can Trump stay on message and not use inflammatory language to friegnthen off suburbia...doubtful. And the GOP led House is the gift that keeps on giving Dems incredible sound bits to sendout to voters. You combine the side shows that are Trump and the GOP House and the right should be extremely nervous.
The Impact of Abortion on 2022 and Beyond
It's clear that the Supreme Court's June 2022 Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health decision had a significant impact on the midterms. But with whom, why and how has been a subject of speculation, hot takes and less-than-accurate exit poll data. However, over the last couple of weeks, I've been...www.cookpolitical.com
Democrats nervous Trump wooing centrists from Biden — The Hill
Democrats are growing increasingly nervous that former President Trump will woo centrist voters away from President Biden.
My point on 6 weeks is that they will soften on that. I agree 6 weeks is a political loser.
Obama always had an obvious dislike of Bibi and trained his folks accordingly. I remember during the Israeli election when he was president he and his staff were out front publicly selling against Bibi.
Democrats nervous Trump wooing centrists from Biden — The Hill
Democrats are growing increasingly nervous that former President Trump will woo centrist voters away from President Biden.
Strong jobs reports? Please read this whole thing. Not from a political source. Economy sucks and everyone knows that.It kind of has been the Silver Bullet and you prove my point by saying a 6 week stance is somehow a softening of their stance. It's still extreme. Have you already forgotten the disappointing 2022 midterms. That was supposed to be a Red Wave but was instead an embarrassment for the GOP. That doesn't happen if Roe isn't overturned. You combine that with a series of excellent job reports and the GOP should be extremely nervous. Can Trump stay on message and not use inflammatory language to friegnthen off suburbia...doubtful. And the GOP led House is the gift that keeps on giving Dems incredible sound bits to sendout to voters. You combine the side shows that are Trump and the GOP House and the right should be extremely nervous.
The Impact of Abortion on 2022 and Beyond
It's clear that the Supreme Court's June 2022 Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health decision had a significant impact on the midterms. But with whom, why and how has been a subject of speculation, hot takes and less-than-accurate exit poll data. However, over the last couple of weeks, I've been...
Lies, Damned Lies, and Jobs
Here’s the first thing to know about the Non-Farm Payrolls (NFP) jobs report. Part time jobs carry just as much weight as full time jobs.
www.pensford.com
How exactly does one "soften" their stance when the six week ban in FL starts May 1st and the total ban in AZ starts in two weeks? Are you suggesting the GOP is going to attempt to walk back the laws they have worked so aggressively to enact?
FL will definitely have a abortion rights ballot measure in November and the pro-abortion rights forces in AZ have already gathered 500k signatures to accomplish the same.
My conservative male friends on the Chat can insist that this won't be a big issue in November but I believe they are wrong. Abortion absolutely played a role in GOP underperformance in 2020 and 2022 and the anti-abortion forces have only grown louder and more extreme since then.
If I'm a Dem media consultant, I'm putting together simple spots that present the words and actions of the GOP on the topic of abortion. There is plenty to work with. AZ representatives were on the floor of the state senate Monday speaking in tongues to conjure God's support for a law that was implemented by a Judge appointed by Abraham Lincoln, before AZ was a state. That is going to completely freak out a lot of normal, moderate people, as it should, and it is going to impact the outcome of the election.
So, any country that purchases mil equipment or receives support from the US of any kind should have their democratic processes subjugated to the will of POTUS?
That's quite a take.
Arizona republicans have already universally opposed their supreme court decision, which isn't yet in effect. They are actively working to replace it with something more in keeping with Arizona majority opinion.
You seem overly aggressive in pointing to how terrible republican policies are for abortion. Thou doth protest too much I think. Same reaction from media and Biden campaign who don't want Trump to "get away with" his more popular and politically smart stance on abortion.
The numbers show that abortions will continue to be on the rise while it is in the state’s hands. Dems love abortions. They are on the rise. Kids transitioning is on a record rise. What is the issue. Other than trying to say this isn’t happening currently, so we can use fear to say this will be shut down. So far even the Supreme Court can’t curb abortions.
US doesn't forcing them to buy our weaponry right? Also when you consider how Israeli military actions, using American military hardware will affect American foreign policy interst in the Middle East that some would call for more of an...America First strategy when dealing with Bibi and Israel 🤔
AZ republicans have universally opposed the SC decision? So the same group who were literally speaking in toungues like a bunch of snake handlers on the floor of the AZ senate on Monday are now condeming what they prayed to God for? I'll need some links for that claim.
I shared the link yesterday of Kari Lake praising the decision and promising that AZ would be a model for the rest of the country but maybe she's "updated" her position.
We are talking about the impact of abortion on the next election. If you think my comments are driven by some sort of fear, that's certainly your prerogative. I find it an odd comment given how things typically go around here, but whatever.
see below. I know you wish trump would come out with a less popular stance on abortion. But he didn’t. And generally the party is and will fall in line lest they lose another election on this issue
Arizona Republicans denounce revived 1864 abortion ban in sudden reversal — Guardian US
As the party struggles to talk about abortion, response marks fastest and strongest rebuke of bans since the fall of Roe
Democrats nervous Trump wooing centrists from Biden — The Hill
Democrats are growing increasingly nervous that former President Trump will woo centrist voters away from President Biden.
The mental gymnastics by some in AZ in the last 24 hours are worthy of a gold medal...they wanted this. They got it. No one to blame but themselves.
Looks pretty clear to me. The AZ Supreme Court made a dumb decision. And the republican leaders in that State have called it out. Media so wants this to be a huge story and the reason trump will lose Arizona.
Democrats nervous Trump wooing centrists from Biden — The Hill
Democrats are growing increasingly nervous that former President Trump will woo centrist voters away from President Biden.
I would say that the universal condemnation you claim is not supported by what you linked. The AZ House Speaker and Senate head both said they are willing to listen to their constituents. That’s political lip service and far from condemnation.see below. I know you wish trump would come out with a less popular stance on abortion. But he didn’t. And generally the party is and will fall in line lest they lose another election on this issue
Arizona Republicans denounce revived 1864 abortion ban in sudden reversal — Guardian US
As the party struggles to talk about abortion, response marks fastest and strongest rebuke of bans since the fall of Roeapple.news
Democrats nervous Trump wooing centrists from Biden — The Hill
Democrats are growing increasingly nervous that former President Trump will woo centrist voters away from President Biden.
This quote from the first article perfectly sums up my view on this supposed reversal.
“They are trying to play it both ways. They’re trying to have this illusion that they’re moderate to get votes, because they know that Arizonans do not want a total ban,” said Dr Gabrielle Goodrick, one of the providers who temporarily stopped performing abortions when Roe fell. “This is just ridiculous. Now they’re saying that they oppose it? Yeah, yeah – a little too late.”
It’s simply not in any way believable unless they work quickly to enact an updated law, which will be aggressively opposed by the far right arm of the party. The same is true in FL with its six week ban. They can’t simply memory hole the last five years now that they’ve decided the electoral impacts of their very clearly articulated positions are extremely unpalatable.
The main point of the article is the desire to un-do this decision.
We will see. The quick response shows me
They understand the political implications and will work quickly to close the door on the “republicans are taking all your rights away” narrative. If they don’t then your argument holds water.
Shouldn’t democrats be happy that trimp
And others may have seen the light on this issue?
Diplomacy & influencing policy vs. what you described as effectively election interference and/or crossing the bounds of national sovereignty ("want Biden to do more to get rid of Bibi") is a heck of a leap.
Sure they can. How many times has Biden flip flopped on stuff when it was determined the politics were hurting him? Maybe the republicans are finally learning how to be better politicians like the Dems.
There is no happiness amongst the 'RATs. There is only destroy, destroy, destroy until chaos ensues at which point they will demand protection from the system they despise.
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