I bet you would hahaha. I would take any of the three. Would lean Griffin because of his political lean, but the dude is very smart and very philanthropic. His work with kids and education is pretty unique.
Election in FL just got interesting; amendment to protect abortion and Marijuana are potentially on the ballot potentially in Nov.....
- Thread starter shonuff253
- Start date
Okay, now that we've got the posturing in place, allow me to provide the omitted facts of the matter.
The vote shown in Representative De Los Santos' post was a motion to adjourn until next Wednesday, not an abortion law vote. The motion was defeated.
The 1864 territorial law, along with other statutes, was included in Arizona law in 1972.
The state supreme court said, in their ruling Tuesday, that the statute could be enforced (but does not require it) since the new law adopted in 2022 is dependent on the federal ruling. The 2022 law did not specifically repeal the old law. That is why the court said the old law may be enforced.
The 2022 ban after 15 weeks includes exceptions in cases of medical emergencies and restrictions on medication abortion (required to be administered by the prescribing doctor). It requires an ultrasound before an abortion and parental consent for minors. Removals of ectopic pregnancies or dead fetuses are not considered abortions by the law. This is the current law in Arizona.
The Court stayed their ruling for 14 days. Former Attorney General Mark Brnovich signed a delayed enforcement agreement in 2022 that effectively extends the stay for another 45 days beyond the 14-day period for a total of 59 days. So the legislature and the Governor have another 2 months to come up with a solution.
The reason the state legislature rejected the proposal to rescind the old law today was that it would leave the state with NO abortion law, effectively making all abortions legal at any time. They were not willing to rescind either existing law without a measure to take its place.
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thank you for posting this clear, concise, un emotional explanation.
it will still be Senator Gallego, but it's nice to know that there is an explanation.
Your life being good does not mean you are not part of the problem.
Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.
I'm sure you've served with distinction. LOL
That’s a helpful update. Thank you.
Two questions for you.
Do you think they will quickly return to the 15 week ban? What about a ballot measure in November?
Was the video of the state reps kneeling around the state crest praying on the senate floor legitimate?
you specifically said, there is no happiness among Democrats, which is a ridiculous statement.
I will counter your unprovable assertions with this: in this century, the GOP has become the most destructive, most toxic political organization in the world, bar none.
ISIS is a distant, distant second, and they have caused so much suffering for so many in so many countries of the world,
Must be doing something right. When team Biden starts scolding media for covering Trump wrong, it is a sure sign. “Wait wait it doesn’t matter what he says, he wants to outright ban abortions nationwide I tell ya!!!”
Biden campaign scolds news outlets for coverage of Trump’s abortion stance — Fox News
President Biden's 2024 campaign publicly scolded media outlets for their coverage of President Donald Trump's abortion stance during a Monday Zoom call.
I specifically said all you do is destroy; and that when your chickens come home to roost, you'll not fail to cry out for somebody else to come save you from the totally predictable consequences of your (democRATs) abominable abuse of the great country and freedom our forefathers left us.
Freedom is not free. It must be protected with sacrifice.
Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. You don't like to talk about that, do you?
Tell me how happy you are again.
Scoff if you like but here is my opinion using no classified information whatsoever and relying only on what has already been published (albeit in a discreet manner) to piece together what I conclude happened. I worked in that business for a long time but nothing in intelligence is perfect and I could certainly be wrong.
Bibi and Mossad were told by the US and by Egypt that Hamas was about to attack. That has been published. It is absurd to think that we knew more about Hamas's plans than the Jews. They logically already knew. We were covering our bases as a matter of redundancy. That's how it's done.
Israel was in a catch22. If they moved in before the Hamas attack and busted up the plan, that does not solve the problem. They would not have world wide opinion/support in their favor to go further and deal a fatal blow to Hamas. I believe they assessed that over time, many more Israelis would die than died on Oct. 7th because Hamas was getting very strong, large, well organized, entrenched and armed. Plus, the leadership of Hamas is ultra hardline, unreasonable zealots and there is therefore no peace with them. They simply will not have it. They are dedicated to destroying the Jews or die trying; this even though the Quran refers to the Jews as the children of Israel. What it means is, Hamas is nothing but a hate group. They have no scriptural/religious basis.
So, Bibi had a terrible decision to make and it's my opinion that he made the decision on the side of longer term security rather than just stopping the initial raid. Whether they knew the details of the raid or its magnitude/size is not clear at this point. I tend to conclude they didn't think it would be as bad as it was.
You seem to want to blame Bibi. I say if I put myself in the same position, God help me, I would do what I think Bibi did. I think it's what he had to do.
with all due respect, since I know nothing about you or your chickens and where they roost (and you know nothing of mine...)
I will say that while I have appreciated your military-focused insights on our geopolitical conflicts abroad, I have found the conclusions you draw regarding geopolitics most often deeply flawed, as colored by bias and anger.
Let me get this right...you're saying Bibi sacrificed 1200 Israelis to a horrific death to justify the response we've seen from the IDF in Gaza? That's not a catch-22 that's a tyrannical mad man. If this were true Bibi would need to be bought up for murder by his own citizens. Such an action would cause a civil war in Israel especially of Bibi didn't step down. I have no idea why American conservatives love the guy so much. Serious Israelis HATE Bibi.
Not saying you are right or wrong in your criticism, but you have a perfect opportunity right in front of you in the @Whosyodawgy post to make your point. What are the deep flaws in his post? Where is the bias and anger? Please point them out or at least ask specific questions.
Otherwise, you are simply meeting an informed scenario with insults. Insults are the last resort of those who don't have contrary facts, constructs or legitimate objections.
His approval ratings in Israel have been very similar to what Biden's is and Trump's was.
Idk where you get that the American conservative loves him. Moreso American conservatives support Israel and he just happens to be the PM for the better part of 30 years.
And I doubt he was willing to allow 1200 citizens to be killed just so he can go in and destroy Hamas. Israel was warned that the terrorists were going to attempt this large scale attack. They likely get intelligence warnings on the regular about terrorist attacks. They f'd up big time by thinking the terrorists could not pull off something of this magnitude.
A few thoughts.
The Israeli response to the attack was so incredibly weak and delayed that, even if Israel had zero intelligence about the attack (and I agree with whoseyodowgy on this, that seems unlikely to the point of impossibility), there is no reasonable explanation that does not include some degree of intent by Bibi.
Sadly, I think Bibi's motives were even worse than what was suggested above, namely the intentional sacrifice of Israeli citizens for the greater good of Israel. I believe Bibi will do anything to stay in power. Until the recent attack, he not only didn't block continued aid to Hamas, but he actively encouraged it despite the fact that Hamas has the stated goal of destroying Israel.
I'll leave it to you guys to infer the rest, given I think Bibi is far more focused on himself than he is the welfare of his citizens.
I do not believe I have insulted him here. I have merely disagreed, categorically, and characterized his tone, regarding what he wrote to me. Have a look back.
The substantive posts that did not address me do, in fact, contain both the good and the bad of his approach, but there's no point engaging, given the attitude.
Or the fact that it happened to be a Jewish holiday on top of the Sabbath when a lot of soldiers were off could have had something to do with it.
Name a prominent politician who doesn't care more about themselves than their citizens? You won't be able to.
But that's different than allowing 1200 to be slaughtered with more being raped and kidnapped.
He has been the PM of Israel for the better part of 30 years. This was an epic f up from Netanyahu Mossad etc to allow this to have taken place, but to say it was allowed by Bibi as an excuse is ridiculous.
That's like saying the US had so much intel on 9/11 and the US had so much time to get fighter jets after the first plane hit so they must have allowed it to happen. Ridiculous
"Serious Israelis HATE Bibi."😂
I guess that's why they keep electing him.
Your thoughts, even your conclusions are inextricably tied to and shaped by your view of how you think it "should" be rather than how it is.
According to your limited view, a general facing enemy forces would be a "tyrannical mad man" and should be tried for murder if he had to decide to leave men in a near unwinnable position so that the rest might gain better position to win the war. But US Generals and even political leaders have lived those very situations. They made the decisions they had to make.
I'm not surprised that you cannot fathom a leader making a decision that tough. You are unable to think outside your liberal American box.
I agree with the general comment about leaders, understand the implications and hesitated to post my thoughts given the implications.
So I’ll retract the larger suggestion and simply say that the initial response, given the circumstances and the constant threat that Israel lives under, was so absolutely horrid that Netanyahu should have resigned in disgrace within days of the attack. A national holiday does not explain away the total absence of an armed response for hours after the attack. It’s very difficult to understand or explain away.
A lot of politicians expected the state supreme court to uphold the 2022 law, as 2 lower courts did. The makeup of the state legislature is essentially the same as the group that passed that statute. The key difference is in the governor's office, where Katie Hobbs has set a record for vetoes. She also does not want the complete ban (obviously), so some compromise is in order, but anything could happen with the proposed constitutional amendment initiative also looming.
The easiest thing to do would be to modify the 2022 law to stand on its own and rescind the old law.
Strategically, Republicans would rather negotiate from the shadow of a complete ban. Democrats would rather negotiate from a scenario where there is no existing law and we have to build it from the ground up. The events of yesterday boil down to that.
The ballot measure that you ask about was started 2 years ago. It is built around the concept of fetal viability without setting a cutoff. It would also permit abortions at any time in the interest of the mother's mental health. It is a lot longer than that, but those are the main changes to what we have now. Hobbs supports the initiative, which you can read about here.
Planned Parenthood is behind it, along with similar proposed constitutional amendments in several states, including the one in Florida. It failed to get on the ballot in 2022. Supporters say they have more signatures this time around. It will certainly be affected by the finagling between now and November over the law.
Israel f'd up. Big time. Netanyahu the intelligence. The response. All of it was a colossal f up. There was no intent by Israel to allow this to happen, any suggestion of the sort is really disgusting. The sole cause of this conflict was the pure evil actions of the terrorists. The notion that Bibi and Israel is an equal villain, or even a villain at all, is disgusting and absurd.
Your position is entirely reasonable, and to be clear, I’m making no excuses for what Hamas did or their responsibility for it. They are getting exactly what they deserve.
It is a rare day that you and I see anything at all with similar view. I think your comment is partially a decent synopsis given a few limitations you operate under. I'll try to explain.
First, and I apologize for appearing to lecture you here, when you draw a conclusion to the best of your ability based on available information, stick to it unless evidence causes you to deviate. You agreed to withdraw a portion basically because someone considers it too awful to consider. That is an emotional response to emperical evidence. Your original conclusion has not been negated.
Second, where you are speculating without proof and drawing conclusions based on something else is your comment about Bibi's motivation. You do not know that fear for self preservation is/was a motivator. There is not direct or documented evidence to support that assertion. It could come out later. But it is not present.
Eliminating emotion and speculation leaves only the evidence.
The only evidence of simply a total fk up is not empirical. In other words, the only thing that supports a total fk up is the fact that Oct 7th happened at all.
All evidence before the fact points to a different scenario. That evidence is not conclusive beyond doubt. But it is nontheless empirical.
As to the limitations I mentioned; our viewpoint is shaped by our environment and our life experience. As Americans, we are conditioned to accept a certain behavior spectrum as universal. It is not. Netanyahu and Mossad do not draw conclusions limited by that spectrum. What we consider too horrible, they are forced to consider as possibility or even alternative..
If you are basing on different perspectives than Bibi allowing this to happen is even more absurd. Israel has always valued life above all. They have historically done anything and everything to save their own citizens. They have traded thousands of terrorist prisoners for small fractions. Gilad Shalit was one Israeli. 1. Thats the number 1. Traded for over 1000 terrorists. Life of Israeli’s has trumped all. That doesn’t change. 1200 to eliminate Hamas is NOT an acceptable sacrifice under any circumstance. 120 would not have been an acceptable sacrifice under any circumstances. 12 would not have been an acceptable sacrifice under any circumstances. 1 would not have been an acceptable sacrifice under any circumstances
The fact that anyone would even consider the possibility that Bibi “allowed” the attack is a reflection on how partisan our politics have become and the propaganda the Obama / Biden regimes have always had against Netanyahu. Absolutely ridiculous. Every bit as ridiculous as 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Not educated enough on the subject to opine about Bibi with confidence but I know Israelis. No freaking way the guy they have elected time and time again would allow a freaking terrorist attack.
It's not partisan....there are many on the right and left that believe Bibi intentially let this happen. I hope it's not the case but you got to do some research and the rogues gallery of villains Bibi has surrounded himself with to stay out of jail. I 100% agree Israel needed a strong response to take out Hamas after Oct 7...but the humanitarian crisis they've created with their response is evil. There is clear evidence that the IDF was withholding aid and food to starve the civilian populace and that js a war crime. It's been said before that Israel needs to ask themselves if Hamas is destroyed tomorrow what does the day after look like. They need only look at the US and the War in Iraq.
No. The PM of Israel did not willingly allow 1,500 Israeli Jews to be raped and murdered in their homes and at a music festival by terrorists. To suggest otherwise is a credibility killer. Sorry.
“As Americans, we are conditioned to accept a certain behavior spectrum as universal. It is not. Netanyahu and Mossad do not draw conclusions limited by that spectrum. What we consider too horrible, they are forced to consider as possibility or even alternative..”
That is what you said
But there is no evidence at all that points to Netanyahu doing this intentionally. None. Not even a little
The only evidence there is points to something not being as it is presented. But evidence does not matter when a person refuses to consider its indication bacause sensibilities won't allow.
I support Bibi 100% and if he did what I think, he did it because he and Mossad knew they had little choice but to absorb the first blow.
If I'm right it does not matter. The truth of that will not come out. Those with proof of such things go the way of Robert Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein.
You can't back that up with anything but hope and baseless opinion.
Look at the evidence and get back to me.
Not that I mind because I think Bibi made a very tough decision based on information from the best intelligence service in the world.
He did what he had to do.
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So Netanyahu was ok with 1200 Israeli citizens dying, including children and babies and Survivors. The equivalent of over 40,000 Americans dying. For the nation that is the only safe haven in the world for the Jewish population (which is only 15 mil worldwide to begin with). Coming off the heels of 6 million having been slaughtered less than a century ago. He was willing to allow 1200 to just die? In the nation and group of people that values life more than any other in the history of the world? He was willing to let 1200 just die. And many others get raped and kidnapped and traumatized for life. And somehow he did that without it getting out? Because heads of Mossad and members of his cabinet would have known. All these people just turned a blind eye to it? In the Jewish state of Israel? The entire idea is so preposterous. There is zero sensibility or credibility to that. Netanyahu would be strung up by his balls alive at the Western Wall for the public to watch him die out that way, and rightfully so. It would be the worst act of any leader in world history to just allow that to happen, in Israel of all places. 2+2=9 makes more sense than that. Israel would lose any and all support it ever had and any and all support it ever could have going forward. Not just from the international world, including America, but from Israel as well. Not 1 Israeli would stand for it. As senseless of a suggestion and conspiracy as has ever been. That equates Bibi and Israel to the status of the terrorists that DO use their civilians as human shields and pawns of war. It is an awful disgusting accusation and 10000000% false on every single level
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It is absurd on every level to think he allowed this to happen. You can see above. But it is absurd. On every level. 1200 people are ok to be slaughtered in a nation as small as Israel and a group of people as small as the Jewish people? It is ridiculous.
And there is ZERO evidence that the IDF was withholding aid and food to starve the civilians. There is though ample evidence that all supplies that go into Gaza are taken by the terrorists and used by the terrorists and the biggest beneficiaries of dead Gazan civilians is the terrorists. The terrorists who actually DO use their civilians as human shields, something Israel WOULD NEVER DO IN A MILLION YEARS.
Paging the Media: You Might Want to Check What Hamas Just Admitted About Those Gaza Death Numbers
The Hamas-run Gaza Ministry of Health said on April 6 that it had “incomplete data” for 11,371 of the 33,091 Palestinian fatalities it claims to have documented. In a statistical report, the ministry notes that it considers an individual record to be incomplete if it is missing any of the following key data points: identity number, full name, date of birth, or date of death. The health ministry also released a report on April 3 that acknowledged the presence of incomplete data but did not define what it meant by “incomplete.” In that earlier report, the ministry acknowledged the incompleteness of 12,263 records. It is unclear why, after just three more days, the number fell to 11,371 — a decrease of more than 900 records.Prior to its admissions of incomplete data, the health ministry, asserted that the information in more than 15,000 fatality records had stemmed from “reliable media sources.” However, the ministry never identified the sources in question and Gaza has no independent media.
https://redstate.com/nick-arama/202...-announcement-that-media-is-ignoring-n2172700
As I said originally, intelligence is never perfect and it's always a guess. But my conclusion is backed by actual evidence to make that guess.
Your post sounds like a democRAT; full of blusterous emotional froth and not one bit of empirical evidence. "He would never do that" or "they would string him up" or "that would make Israel as bad as the terrorists", is not evidence.
People who have never been in war have no idea the burden leaders sometimes bear.
I support Bibi 100% even if he was forced to do what evidence suggests.
What evidence? I have family in the IDF. An associate who’s a general in the IDF that I speak to on a monthly basis and my brother speaks to 2-3x/weeks.
What evidence do you have that Netanyahu allowed this to happen? I am very curious.
And I am not a democrat. Just dumb of people on both sides to pigeonhole someone based off of nothing
I have not said that I have "proof" Israel or Bibi allowed the first blow to take place. But evidence does exist. I'm not going to rehash what I already laid out.
But, I don't think you read the entirety of my first post otherwise you would not be claiming something I did not say. What I did say was that no intel is perfect, it is always a guess, I could be wrong but it is my conclusion.
You have a right to your opinion also, even if it is not based on the empirical evidence. The whole story probably will not come out for many years if ever.
I do not have family members in IDF. I hope yours are safe. I do have friends who are current IDF commanders and life long friends in both major intelligence services there. My family is 3 generations deep in US intelligence. We are Jews who originally began bringing the family over here via Scotland in 1679.
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