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Hoisted on His Own Petard

nice marmot

Diehard supporter
Jan 13, 2002
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How among us cares to predict what will happen next in this Trump documents thing?

I will just for the fun of it with the caveat that I know no more about this than anyone, and much less than some of our LEOs and lawyers on here, but it’s the chat, so why not try a good natured experiment:
  • Trump will contest the release of the warrant. It’s to his advantage to keep the public discourse as fact free as possible and, let's face it, this probably doesn't look good on paper.
  • The judge will not unseal it, because DOJ doesn't really care to have it in the public either, they were just calling his bluff because he was impugning the Department and the FBI. Maybe they get an agreement that sees him cool his jets, but I sort of doubt it. More likely they just want his silence on the actual matter of the contents.
  • To review: Trump took documents. NA tried to get them back. Trump didn’t want to give everything back. I am guessing that, having gone round and round with his lawyers, given a cooperating source or two, DOJ said screw it – Donald is off watching golf somewhere, there's probable cause, let’s end this quietly.
  • Donald was predictably pissed. Felt violated one the one hand, “They can’t do this to ME!” and terrified on the other, “What are they going to try to DO to me?” so he makes a big stink on Monday night, knowing that he can get ahead of all this in the press (or, possibly, thinking that the DOJ will go to the press, because of course everyone must be corrupt…)
  • We are unlikely ever to -know- the exact contents of those boxes, as the language on the warrant is bound to be vague as to the exact contents. Are there documents relevant to other investigations? or that might lead to charges? Possibly. Are there important natsec or other sensitive documents? Maybe, given that the request to unseal was signed by the DOJ Chief of counter intel. Seems unlikely, if they are so sensitive as to require return, that we will ever (or at least not for a long time) get to know more than just the "kind" of documents that were in question.
  • All of what follows if the warrant remains sealed is handled by lawyers behind closed doors, though of course in public Trump will to his dying day say that he was railroaded by a corrupt DOJ and the FBI and blah blah blah. This will be a dangerous game for him, but one we know he loves playing.
  • Anyone else would have handled this differently (or been already in jail) and maybe Trump should have, because the NA and the DOJ don’t really want to charge him. As some on here have said, to charge him for mishandling records would be just a little too minor I think – what a basketball coach once called "a ticky tack foul" - and I say this despite we don’t know what he had, or what they thought he was going to do with it, but it would have to be REAL sensitive for it to be big enough to merit an actual indictment. I am guessing they just wanted whatever it was back bad enough to risk handing Trump a trump to play (outrage over the raid).
  • Garland still doesn’t want to charge him and will resist pressure to do so. He seemed pissed, but I don’t think a felony mishandling of records was the endgame. My guess is that getting the records was the endgame. Perhaps those factor in other investigations, TBD, and that is why Trump was hoarding them… but maybe not! Maybe it was just material he needed in order to "write" his memoirs. Only Trump, his lawyers, anyone he tells, and the DOJ will get to know until the day comes when the media is able to get its way through FOIA requests and subsequent lawsuits and appeals, ad nauseum.
  • Of course, the deep irony is that Trump made it a felony to violate the very laws it now seems he violated. There is a world where he forces them into charging him, I guess. More games. But it would surprise me if he is ever charged. I was surprised that Garland went as far as he did today! And I honestly don't know enough about what Trump might have had access to in order to take that would cause such an epic event as to charge and arrest a former President.
Maybe I am all wrong, as I have painted the best case scenario for the former president here. Once again, it is much ado about Donald.
 
He won’t get in trouble.

FBI has a real problem in my opinion. Either they lied to everybody and the real reason for the raid was something other than NARA, or they grossly over stepped all sense of fairness and decorum rading the personal home of the former President over something all Presidents do. They could have obtained same through subpoena. That’s why this seems contrived and political. Their track record the past 6 years or so is pretty bad.
 
He won’t get in trouble.

FBI has a real problem in my opinion. Either they lied to everybody and the real reason for the raid was something other than NARA, or they grossly over stepped all sense of fairness and decorum rading the personal home of the former President over something all Presidents do. They could have obtained same through subpoena. That’s why this seems contrived and political. Their track record the past 6 years or so is pretty bad.
So we agree on the one thing.

The problem with the other is that - regarding the talking point that's currently popular among Rs -, Obama cleared his dox with the national archives.
 
He won’t get in trouble.

FBI has a real problem in my opinion. Either they lied to everybody and the real reason for the raid was something other than NARA, or they grossly over stepped all sense of fairness and decorum rading the personal home of the former President over something all Presidents do. They could have obtained same through subpoena. That’s why this seems contrived and political. Their track record the past 6 years or so is pretty bad.
It appears they did subpoena him in June and he chose to return some but not all of the documents.

Also, assuming former presidents had the exact equivalence of levels and numbers of classified documents (a very big assumption), Trump is subject to the much more aggressive law regarding handling of classified material that he pushed for and signed in 2018.



 
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The fear from the deep state and the criminal enterprise which the DNC has become is palpable. Raiding a former president's home is a step never taken before. It is Banana Republic politics. This is a continuation of the orchestrated histrionics so putridly displayed in the 1/6 farce.
The fear is justified.
If DJT were to win in '24 after this all out effort to smear and/or disqualify him, he would without question fire the deep state's most valuable agency heads ie FBI, CIA, StateDept. IRS gestapo. etc., replacing them with proven patriots. He would then begin purging the deep state bureaucRATs from their cushy nests. He would not hesitate to start putting criminal democRATs in jail where they have for so long deserved to be.
The 'RATs know this is true and they will stop at NOTHING to keep their blood sucking tentacles embedded in the veins of power.
If the criminal 'RATs cannot find a way to disqualify DJT from the 2024 ballot, I expect Trump's assassination.
 
The fear from the deep state and the criminal enterprise which the DNC has become is palpable. Raiding a former president's home is a step never taken before. It is Banana Republic politics. This is a continuation of the orchestrated histrionics so putridly displayed in the 1/6 farce.
The fear is justified.
If DJT were to win in '24 after this all out effort to smear and/or disqualify him, he would without question fire the deep state's most valuable agency heads ie FBI, CIA, StateDept. IRS gestapo. etc., replacing them with proven patriots. He would then begin purging the deep state bureaucRATs from their cushy nests. He would not hesitate to start putting criminal democRATs in jail where they have for so long deserved to be.
The 'RATs know this is true and they will stop at NOTHING to keep their blood sucking tentacles embedded in the veins of power.
If the criminal 'RATs cannot find a way to disqualify DJT from the 2024 ballot, I expect Trump's assassination.
talk about histrionics!
 
ofer one! according to twitter, Trump will not contest the order and we will see the warrant
 
So we agree on the one thing.

The problem with the other is that - regarding the talking point that's currently popular among Rs -, Obama cleared his dox with the national archives.
I’ve not seen that story. But, he took 33,000 dox allegedly to digitize them (as if the Nat Arch couldn’t do it). He still hasn’t returned them. Then there’s Hillary and Comey.

Give me a break.
 
Looks like another dog and pony show. Either way. They may have felt like they had no other choice that could be true, but it will look bad no matter what. And it just took the gloves off for this kind of thing in the future
 
I’ve not seen that story. But, he took 33,000 dox allegedly to digitize them (as if the Nat Arch couldn’t do it). He still hasn’t returned them. Then there’s Hillary and Comey.

Give me a break.
https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2022/nr22-001

That isn't what the Nat'l Archive says

August 12, 2022, statement

The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration.
 
I’ve not seen that story. But, he took 33,000 dox allegedly to digitize them (as if the Nat Arch couldn’t do it). He still hasn’t returned them. Then there’s Hillary and Comey.

Give me a break.
well... you're wrong. I guess that's what you get for blindly repeating talking points:

FZ-vEhhUUAAGNoe
 
Looks like another dog and pony show. Either way. They may have felt like they had no other choice that could be true, but it will look bad no matter what. And it just took the gloves off for this kind of thing in the future
for the next time a president just steals stuff that might be tantamount to theft of TOP SECRET national security documents?

again, the only reason we, the public, even know about this is because Trump couldn't be silent.
 
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How among us cares to predict what will happen next in this Trump documents thing?

I will just for the fun of it with the caveat that I know no more about this than anyone, and much less than some of our LEOs and lawyers on here, but it’s the chat, so why not try a good natured experiment:
  • Trump will contest the release of the warrant. It’s to his advantage to keep the public discourse as fact free as possible and, let's face it, this probably doesn't look good on paper.
  • The judge will not unseal it, because DOJ doesn't really care to have it in the public either, they were just calling his bluff because he was impugning the Department and the FBI. Maybe they get an agreement that sees him cool his jets, but I sort of doubt it. More likely they just want his silence on the actual matter of the contents.
  • To review: Trump took documents. NA tried to get them back. Trump didn’t want to give everything back. I am guessing that, having gone round and round with his lawyers, given a cooperating source or two, DOJ said screw it – Donald is off watching golf somewhere, there's probable cause, let’s end this quietly.
  • Donald was predictably pissed. Felt violated one the one hand, “They can’t do this to ME!” and terrified on the other, “What are they going to try to DO to me?” so he makes a big stink on Monday night, knowing that he can get ahead of all this in the press (or, possibly, thinking that the DOJ will go to the press, because of course everyone must be corrupt…)
  • We are unlikely ever to -know- the exact contents of those boxes, as the language on the warrant is bound to be vague as to the exact contents. Are there documents relevant to other investigations? or that might lead to charges? Possibly. Are there important natsec or other sensitive documents? Maybe, given that the request to unseal was signed by the DOJ Chief of counter intel. Seems unlikely, if they are so sensitive as to require return, that we will ever (or at least not for a long time) get to know more than just the "kind" of documents that were in question.
  • All of what follows if the warrant remains sealed is handled by lawyers behind closed doors, though of course in public Trump will to his dying day say that he was railroaded by a corrupt DOJ and the FBI and blah blah blah. This will be a dangerous game for him, but one we know he loves playing.
  • Anyone else would have handled this differently (or been already in jail) and maybe Trump should have, because the NA and the DOJ don’t really want to charge him. As some on here have said, to charge him for mishandling records would be just a little too minor I think – what a basketball coach once called "a ticky tack foul" - and I say this despite we don’t know what he had, or what they thought he was going to do with it, but it would have to be REAL sensitive for it to be big enough to merit an actual indictment. I am guessing they just wanted whatever it was back bad enough to risk handing Trump a trump to play (outrage over the raid).
  • Garland still doesn’t want to charge him and will resist pressure to do so. He seemed pissed, but I don’t think a felony mishandling of records was the endgame. My guess is that getting the records was the endgame. Perhaps those factor in other investigations, TBD, and that is why Trump was hoarding them… but maybe not! Maybe it was just material he needed in order to "write" his memoirs. Only Trump, his lawyers, anyone he tells, and the DOJ will get to know until the day comes when the media is able to get its way through FOIA requests and subsequent lawsuits and appeals, ad nauseum.
  • Of course, the deep irony is that Trump made it a felony to violate the very laws it now seems he violated. There is a world where he forces them into charging him, I guess. More games. But it would surprise me if he is ever charged. I was surprised that Garland went as far as he did today! And I honestly don't know enough about what Trump might have had access to in order to take that would cause such an epic event as to charge and arrest a former President.
Maybe I am all wrong, as I have painted the best case scenario for the former president here. Once again, it is much ado about Donald.

like I'm going to read a troll diatribe;



piss against the wind prior to an intectual conversation.?
liberal scum.
 
https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2022/nr22-001

That isn't what the Nat'l Archive says

August 12, 2022, statement

The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration.
moved to Chicago…lol
 
How among us cares to predict what will happen next in this Trump documents thing?

I will just for the fun of it with the caveat that I know no more about this than anyone, and much less than some of our LEOs and lawyers on here, but it’s the chat, so why not try a good natured experiment:
  • Trump will contest the release of the warrant. It’s to his advantage to keep the public discourse as fact free as possible and, let's face it, this probably doesn't look good on paper.
  • The judge will not unseal it, because DOJ doesn't really care to have it in the public either, they were just calling his bluff because he was impugning the Department and the FBI. Maybe they get an agreement that sees him cool his jets, but I sort of doubt it. More likely they just want his silence on the actual matter of the contents.
  • To review: Trump took documents. NA tried to get them back. Trump didn’t want to give everything back. I am guessing that, having gone round and round with his lawyers, given a cooperating source or two, DOJ said screw it – Donald is off watching golf somewhere, there's probable cause, let’s end this quietly.
  • Donald was predictably pissed. Felt violated one the one hand, “They can’t do this to ME!” and terrified on the other, “What are they going to try to DO to me?” so he makes a big stink on Monday night, knowing that he can get ahead of all this in the press (or, possibly, thinking that the DOJ will go to the press, because of course everyone must be corrupt…)
  • We are unlikely ever to -know- the exact contents of those boxes, as the language on the warrant is bound to be vague as to the exact contents. Are there documents relevant to other investigations? or that might lead to charges? Possibly. Are there important natsec or other sensitive documents? Maybe, given that the request to unseal was signed by the DOJ Chief of counter intel. Seems unlikely, if they are so sensitive as to require return, that we will ever (or at least not for a long time) get to know more than just the "kind" of documents that were in question.
  • All of what follows if the warrant remains sealed is handled by lawyers behind closed doors, though of course in public Trump will to his dying day say that he was railroaded by a corrupt DOJ and the FBI and blah blah blah. This will be a dangerous game for him, but one we know he loves playing.
  • Anyone else would have handled this differently (or been already in jail) and maybe Trump should have, because the NA and the DOJ don’t really want to charge him. As some on here have said, to charge him for mishandling records would be just a little too minor I think – what a basketball coach once called "a ticky tack foul" - and I say this despite we don’t know what he had, or what they thought he was going to do with it, but it would have to be REAL sensitive for it to be big enough to merit an actual indictment. I am guessing they just wanted whatever it was back bad enough to risk handing Trump a trump to play (outrage over the raid).
  • Garland still doesn’t want to charge him and will resist pressure to do so. He seemed pissed, but I don’t think a felony mishandling of records was the endgame. My guess is that getting the records was the endgame. Perhaps those factor in other investigations, TBD, and that is why Trump was hoarding them… but maybe not! Maybe it was just material he needed in order to "write" his memoirs. Only Trump, his lawyers, anyone he tells, and the DOJ will get to know until the day comes when the media is able to get its way through FOIA requests and subsequent lawsuits and appeals, ad nauseum.
  • Of course, the deep irony is that Trump made it a felony to violate the very laws it now seems he violated. There is a world where he forces them into charging him, I guess. More games. But it would surprise me if he is ever charged. I was surprised that Garland went as far as he did today! And I honestly don't know enough about what Trump might have had access to in order to take that would cause such an epic event as to charge and arrest a former President.
Maybe I am all wrong, as I have painted the best case scenario for the former president here. Once again, it is much ado about Donald.
Tired of it. I will ask you a single question.

Is there a single thing that any of the documents do, that affects your life at all?

Other than trying to “get” Trump, is there a single thing it does to your life?

You seemed to be intensely concerned over the rule of law. I concerned over what I should be concerned about.
 
Tired of it. I will ask you a single question.

Is there a single thing that any of the documents do, that affects your life at all?

Other than trying to “get” Trump, is there a single thing it does to your life?

You seemed to be intensely concerned over the rule of law. I concerned over what I should be concerned about.
It is a mental condition.....Obsessive Compulsive Disorder with TDS....They will never be satisfied until they "Get" Trump... If they do it will something new to obsess and bloviate over...it's what they do....it's all they do...
 
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