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Marxism/Liberal Progressive conversation

PotimusWillie

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OK, let’s get it started. I will do my best to explain my point. I am trying to explain my view, not as a conservative, but an observation of similarities in a movement that has been repeated many times throughout history and seen great societies fail.

The focus of my point was to work from Marx’s writings and compare to the progressive movement. It isn’t to insinuate at all that the progressive movement and the people that support it are Karl Marx disciples. But rather, look at the parallels in how Marxism and The progressive movement are so similar and to stress how evil infiltrates society. The ideas of equality and equity are, in themselves, wholesome concepts. But as evil does, and how it clouds our way of thinking, the good gets used to create an unholy alliance that actually harms the very fabric of our country and society as we know it.

The progressive movement desires to abolish the present state of things and the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. That, in itself, is a construct of every country that has moved towards a Marxist condition.

I think we get caught up in seeing Marxism as purely an economic conflict in society with a cause for equity and equality. And in one reply to me, as an economic opinion that would have been long forgotten but for a couple of historical happenings. I do not agree at all in that assessment. And it is in the roots of the Marxist doctrine where the true evil lies.

Marx wasn’t the originator of evil, but a disciple. His writings and poetry, from his youth forward, shown a close relationship in satanic origins and a fascination with Hell. Marx wrote “My soul is chosen for Hell”

He was perverse, seriously perverse and brooded in misery. He advanced himself in the name of misery and ultimately produced misery. The ole saying that “men start revolutionary changes for reasons connected to their lives” fits Marx perfectly.

He sold a utopian goal that destroyed societies, cultures, and created economic failure. In the mantra of fairness, it created prisoners of government control. He stoked revolution by waging war against private wealth in the name of equity. Then what was left was governmental control that resulted in the loss of citizen freedoms.

When individual rights and economic freedoms are lost and redistributed, the citizen will seek protection and support from its government. Marx understood that clearly. And that was the point. And the root of that control was the abolishment of God and religion within the system. Allowing the government to “be the religion of the people”.

The conspiracy to destroy the soul of man is joined by many. Marx has played his part. This plays out as a spiritual nightmare.

Marx wrote, in the Manifesto, that communism seeks to “abolish the present state of things” and called for “the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions”

The progressive movement tracks that philosophy. Pawns in the great conspiracy. Reading about the man is fascinating. Seeing us mimic his teachings is concerning.

Too long, more on that later.
 
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OK, let’s get it started. I will do my best to explain my point. I am trying to explain my view, not as a conservative, but an observation of similarities in a movement that has been repeated many times throughout history and seen great societies fail.

The focus of my point was to work from Marx’s writings and compare to the progressive movement. It isn’t to insinuate at all that the progressive movement and the people that support it are Karl Marx disciples. But rather, look at the parallels in how Marxism and The progressive movement are so similar and to stress how evil infiltrates society. The ideas of equality and equity are, in themselves, wholesome concepts. But as evil does, and how it clouds our way of thinking, the good gets used to create an unholy alliance that actually harms the very fabric of our country and society as we know it.

The progressive movement desires to abolish the present state of things and the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. That, in itself, is a construct of every country that has moved towards a Marxist condition.

I think we get caught up in seeing Marxism as purely an economic conflict in society with a cause for equity and equality. And in one reply to me, as an economic opinion that would have been long forgotten but for a couple of historical happenings. I do not agree at all in that assessment. And it is in the roots of the Marxist doctrine where the true evil lies.

Marx wasn’t the originator of evil, but a disciple. His writings and poetry, from his youth forward, shown a close relationship in satanic origins and a fascination with Hell. Marx wrote “My soul is chosen for Hell”

He was perverse, seriously perverse and brooded in misery. He advanced himself in the name of misery and ultimately produced misery. The ole saying that “men start revolutionary changes for reasons connected to their lives” fits Marx perfectly.

He sold a utopian goal that destroyed societies, cultures, and created economic failure. In the mantra of fairness, it created prisoners of government control. He stoked revolution by waging war against private wealth in the name of equity. Then what was left was governmental control that resulted in the loss of citizen freedoms.

When individual rights and economic freedoms are lost and redistributed, the citizen will seek protection and support from its government. Marx understood that clearly. And that was the point. And the root of that control was the abolishment of God and religion within the system. Allowing the government to “be the religion of the people”.

The conspiracy to destroy the soul of man is joined by many. Marx has played his part. This plays out as a spiritual nightmare.

Marx wrote, in the Manifesto, that communism seeks to “abolish the present state of things” and called for “the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions”

The progressive movement tracks that philosophy. Pawns in the great conspiracy. Reading about the man is fascinating. Seeing us mimic his teachings is concerning.

Too long, more on that later.
PW - thanks for the additional thoughts.

We still need your definition for the progressive movement. The original progressive movement was a direct response to the concentration of wealth and power and the excesses that followed during the Gilded Age (see Teddy Roosevelt) but we are in a different time with different factors at play (the original progressive movement was rooted in religion, the current one not so much).

So some additional definition would be appreciated.
 
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I think you set yourself up to lose debates or at least be summarily dismissed by other parties when you try to compare group X to Marx, Mao, Hitler or Mussolini. You are basically doing what the statist/globalist want when you portray someone as a Marxist or fascist because you are implying their supporters are evil authoritarians as well and turn debates into us vs us instead of debates that focus on us keeping a check on the governing.

So yes, you can find similar tactics used by the prog left today that were used by other authoritarians and we can go back in history and find horrific examples of authoritarian abuses by what you could consider the right but focusing on that accomplishes nothing. Imo, as a society we need an open and honest debate about real policy and how much central government power we are willing to accept.

Trump is a fascist doesn't address real policy issues and eschewing a sane border policy because someone says fascist makes no sense for any American. By the same token, Biden is being controlled by Marxist takes the focus off what I consider to be catastrophic policy failures and what can be done to pull Americans together to create an opportunity society that makes us all proud. We need to stop focusing on symbolic gestures and wrongs of the past and start focusing on the solutions that around 70% of Americans could support.
 
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I think you set yourself up to lose debates or at least be summarily dismissed by other parties when you try to compare group X to Marx, Mao, Hitler or Mussolini. You are basically doing what the statist/globalist want when you portray someone as a Marxist or fascist because you are implying their supporters are evil authoritarians as well and turn debates into us vs us instead of debates that focus on us keeping a check on the governing.

So yes, you can find similar tactics used by the prog left today that were used by other authoritarians and we can go back in history and find horrific examples of authoritarian abuses by what you could consider the right but focusing on that accomplishes nothing. Imo, as a society we need an open and honest debate about real policy and how much central government power we are willing to accept.

Trump is a fascist doesn't address real policy issues and eschewing a sane border policy because someone says fascist makes no sense for any American. By the same token, Biden is being controlled by Marxist takes the focus off what I consider to be catastrophic policy failures and what can be done to pull Americans together to create an opportunity society that makes us all proud. We need to stop focusing on symbolic gestures and wrongs of the past and start focusing on the solutions that around 70% of Americans could support.
agree with this, the issue we currently have is there is no benefit for our current politicos to agree on policies. The bases can’t align on even the simplest things and as long as you have a large segment of the population think they are entitled to take something from someone else you won’t get alignment on anything.

College debt as an example, why isn’t cost control the policy being discussed?

Green energy - why isn’t the policy of America supplying global energy when the US produces energy at a much lower carbon footprint than every other large energy producing nation

Why aren’t we discussing policy that benefits nuclear families?

Why aren’t we talking policies that don’t subsidize families who can’t afford children?

Why aren’t policies that let people choose where they want to be educated discussed?

Why aren’t we discussing policies that keep the US from being the World’s police force?

Why aren’t we discussing policy that really drive repatriation of manufacturing?

What is our immigration policy?

Why aren’t we discussing cost control on healthcare beyond medicare? Why isn’t their price gouging language in medicine like there is for oil and gas companies during hurricanes?

Why isn’t there policy that limits the feds ability to access SS taxes to be used for general funding?

Many examples exist but the feds really don’t have a reason to solve the problems because it makes their job less important.
 
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I think you set yourself up to lose debates or at least be summarily dismissed by other parties when you try to compare group X to Marx, Mao, Hitler or Mussolini. You are basically doing what the statist/globalist want when you portray someone as a Marxist or fascist because you are implying their supporters are evil authoritarians as well and turn debates into us vs us instead of debates that focus on us keeping a check on the governing.

So yes, you can find similar tactics used by the prog left today that were used by other authoritarians and we can go back in history and find horrific examples of authoritarian abuses by what you could consider the right but focusing on that accomplishes nothing. Imo, as a society we need an open and honest debate about real policy and how much central government power we are willing to accept.

Trump is a fascist doesn't address real policy issues and eschewing a sane border policy because someone says fascist makes no sense for any American. By the same token, Biden is being controlled by Marxist takes the focus off what I consider to be catastrophic policy failures and what can be done to pull Americans together to create an opportunity society that makes us all proud. We need to stop focusing on symbolic gestures and wrongs of the past and start focusing on the solutions that around 70% of Americans could support.
I haven’t connected the dots. So you dismissing me is not allowing me to defend my opinion. The issue is why we are where we are and where we are going. My point is to illustrate why we are in the state of mind where we are right now.

The conspiracy of social decline in our country follows closely with the ideas of the communist movement. Communism doesn’t just happen, it must be groomed into existence. This is what Marx described.

Social, judicial, sexual orientation, and racial unrest is the grooming process. The loss of identity of moral truth and ethical standards and a militant unmonitored movement promoting equality and equity is paramount in preparing a culture and society to embrace socialist ideas.

The educational system, controlled by the government with responsibility taken away from the parents and legal guardians, where the teachers act as legal guardians in what is taught.

We ignore the foundations of our system of representation in government, and have been taught to militantly protest every single decision and every single opinion.

The President, the head elected official speaking to the citizens as “with us or against us”, further dividing the country, instead of speaking to each taxpayer in a way that says that the government works for them to protect its citizens first, this is part of the process.

The movement of mistrust of local city by city law enforcement, creating a climate of criminal behavior that further destroys the basic fabric of our communities.

Each of these are part of the communist manifesto. Communism happens gradually, as the citizens eat themselves into submission and seek central government control to fix the issues our leaders create.

Our country was founded on basic principles that provided freedoms for citizens. It provided a voice in the election process and local representation.

The progressive movement looks to transform the foundations of that, and my question is, to what end?

And this process we are experiencing follows the Marxist plan to the letter. To bring a country to its knees by dividing it out in ways that the average citizen cannot even tell the pot of water they are swimming in it going to boil them alive. We are groomed to seek self indulgence to a point that puts us in powerless position. When we wake up, it’s too late.

One should read the manifesto. It shows how to gut a country of its soul. And we are witnessing that right now.
 
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How in the world do you come to that conclusion?
Define a woman. Why does the employee who calls the police when someone is ransacking their store get fired?

Why do we push to allow teachers to have secrets with our children?

Why is it dangerous to allow the gospel to be preached respectfully on a sidewalk, out OK to protest and burn down a city?

Why do we have cross dresser drag queens reading to kindergarten students?

Why do books in elementary schools have graphic pictures and descriptions of sexual acts?

Just a couple of concepts of societal confusion and collapse.
 
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Our country was founded on basic principles that provided freedoms for citizens. It provided a voice in the election process and local representation.

The progressive movement looks to transform the foundations of that, and my question is, to what end?
Our country was founded on basic principles that provided freedoms for some of our citizens. Women, blacks and others were very specifically not included in those same freedoms and it was people who I assume you would call progressive (still can’t say for sure because I still don’t know your definition) who worked over time to address these inequalities.

And there were people making the exact same arguments at the time against those past changes that you are making now.
 
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Our country was founded on basic principles that provided freedoms for some of our citizens. Women, blacks and others were very specifically not included in those same freedoms and it was people who I assume you would call progressive (still can’t say for sure because I still don’t know your definition) who worked over time to address these inequalities.

And there were people making the exact same arguments at the time against those past changes that you are making now.
Actually, the principles our country was founded on is the reason those you identified have the freedoms of citizenry now.

The point of the genius of our founding fathers document was that is allowed, through representation, the evolution of our freedoms for all. It was not done through revolution.

The Marxist movement does not allow for progressive movement of societal norms under the sovereign mechanism of our constitution, it creates division, envy and discord to create a need for centralized laws.

We get divided into groups and can’t speak on fairness because of past sins that can never be forgotten or forgiven, no matter that it has been corrected.

No moving forward, just reliving past sins and create discord to unsettle the citizens. We forget how we got here and why.

Thanks for the conversation.
 
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No moving forward, just reliving past sins and create discord to unsettle the citizens. We forget how we got here and why
Question, what's your definition of moving forward, and who makes the determination it's time to move forward?
 
The point of the genius of our founding fathers document was that it allowed, through representation, the evolution of our freedoms for all. It was not done through revolution.
What does this even mean, there have been many forms of representative democracies throughout history most famously the Roman Republic.
 
The Marxist movement does not allow for progressive movement of societal norms under the sovereign mechanism of our constitution, it creates division, envy, and discord to create a need for centralized laws.
And I bring this up again...are you trying to say the American form of government has been a shining example of unity and inclusivity throughout it's history?
 
What does this even mean, there have been many forms of representative democracies throughout history most famously the Roman Republic.
are you saying the Romans were really democratic? Might want to check that
 
Question, what's your definition of moving forward, and who makes the determination it's time to move forward?
well in any republic the majority of elected representatives get to decide and that should be mandated by the voters those representatives represent
 
Oh God no. Do you think all Americans have been represented throughout its history?
Do I think all Americans have been represented yes, do I think all people were recognized as Americans no. btw has nothing to do with the Roman Republic you referenced.
 
So that whole women couldn’t vote until the 20th century thing, just didn’t happen?
beauty of the constitution right they were represented well enough to enact change. so we’re they represented, yes, did it happen much later than it should have, yes.
 
beauty of the constitution right they were represented well enough to enact change. so we’re they represented, yes, did it happen much later than it should have, yes.
Actually, the principles our country was founded on is the reason those you identified have the freedoms of citizenry now.

The point of the genius of our founding fathers document was that is allowed, through representation, the evolution of our freedoms for all. It was not done through revolution.

The Marxist movement does not allow for progressive movement of societal norms under the sovereign mechanism of our constitution, it creates division, envy and discord to create a need for centralized laws.

We get divided into groups and can’t speak on fairness because of past sins that can never be forgotten or forgiven, no matter that it has been corrected.

No moving forward, just reliving past sins and create discord to unsettle the citizens. We forget how we got here and why.

Thanks for the conversation.
Im still waiting for a definition of progressives and examples of this revolutionary behavior you keep referencing. At some point you need to get a little more specific or it’s impossible to have a discussion.

beauty of the constitution right they were represented well enough to enact change. so we’re they represented, yes, did it happen much later than it should have, yes.
You might want to study the history of the woman’s suffrage movement, what they did to achieve their goals and how conservatives spoke about them at the time. It will all sound very familiar to many of those espousing the conservative arguments today about the destruction of the social fabric.

 
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Do I think all Americans have been represented yes, do I think all people were recognized as Americans no. btw has nothing to do with the Roman Republic you referenced.
Wait, how do you explain women's suffrage or Civil Rights Movement?
 
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Wait, how do you explain women's suffrage or Civil Rights Movement?
And of course one of the most consistent and impactful arguments by the forces of segregation against MLK and his movement was that he was a communist.

Sound familiar?
 
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Im still waiting for a definition of progressives and examples of this revolutionary behavior you keep referencing. At some point you need to get a little more specific or it’s impossible to have a discussion.


You might want to study the history of the woman’s suffrage movement, what they did to achieve their goals and how conservatives spoke about them at the time. It will all sound very familiar to many of those espousing the conservative arguments today about the destruction of the social fabric.

Out of this on Memorial Day. Will resume debate with the heathens and unwashed on Tuesday.

Enjoy your day will.
 
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Im still waiting for a definition of progressives and examples of this revolutionary behavior you keep referencing. At some point you need to get a little more specific or it’s impossible to have a discussion.


You might want to study the history of the woman’s suffrage movement, what they did to achieve their goals and how conservatives spoke about them at the time. It will all sound very familiar to many of those espousing the conservative arguments today about the destruction of the social fabric.

it is amazing how many democrats opposed the women’s vote
 
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