On the issue of student loans, Biden is more Christian than 99% of the Republicans.
- Thread starter OriginalGatorHator
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What planet did you grow up on?
Can you explain your reasoning?
Sure, this is a point of disagreement between me and my fellow right wingers on this board. I’ll try to summarize as briefly as I can. *ended up not being that brief*
Our entire educational system/ societal structure (whatever you call it) teaches young people from the time they are 3 to the time they are 18 that if they want a slice of the American dream they must go to college. Going to college is expensive and saddles people with at minimum thousands of dollars of non dischargable debt but America tells its youth not to worry about that because of the promise of the American dream.
But due to a number of reasons, that is rarely true in 2025. Graduating from college no longer secures fulfilling employment which allows young people to purchase a home and start a family (there are exceptions obviously I’m just talking about the general rule). Instead they will be working for a soulless corporate entity, making the same wage their father did 30 years ago when rent, gas, groceries etc has all risen by 300%.
It’s fraud and it’s usurious and if we as a society don’t want millions and millions of young people saddled with debt they will never pay off something has to be done.
Student loans are usurious.
Gen Z is entering into the worst American market in living memory saddled with more debt than any American generation. They can’t discharge this debt and societies owe it to the younger generation to ensure they have a fair chance to make it in life.
Ensuring they don’t is how revolutions happen.
I 100% agree with you here. However, what I’m having a hard time understanding is how this makes him “more Christian.”
Glad we agree.
I used the phrase “more Christian” because I have found, in my experience, that the typical attitude from Christians regarding this matter is a “they made this bed so they have to lie in it”. Even in my own church, which I love dearly, men aged 50-80 tend to view young people as being stupid for going to college and incurring a bunch of debt. And are generally not sympathetic as to this issue.
Now of course Biden didn’t do this out of any Christian goodwill towards his fellow man he did this because it’s an easy political victory for him.
The cost of college has increased more than double the rate as everything else the last 20 years.
Why? Aligned interests between left leaning politicians, college administrators, and professors - at the expense of the students and their parents.
It is in the left leaning politicians interest to have left thinking folks in colleges.
It is in the left leaning administrators and professors interests to make more money. Competing with their private sector counterparts despite the open market not demanding more dollars for their work.
So how do you make this happen?
Make it ridiculously easy to get government financing…..leading to the ease of raising tuition….leading to the ability to seriously inflate the salaries of college administrators and professors. A total manipulation of free markets.
That said, no one is holding a gun to the head of anyone to go to college and/or take on student loans. And if you do take on college, it is up to you to work / perform….and God forbid choose a sector with a financial future. And it is on you to pay it back. Like any other loan.
Taking taxpayer money and subsidizing philosophy majors / now baristas at the expense of the plumber is a slap in the face to anyone who either didn’t go to college or went and did not receive a handout.
Why? Aligned interests between left leaning politicians, college administrators, and professors - at the expense of the students and their parents.
It is in the left leaning politicians interest to have left thinking folks in colleges.
It is in the left leaning administrators and professors interests to make more money. Competing with their private sector counterparts despite the open market not demanding more dollars for their work.
So how do you make this happen?
Make it ridiculously easy to get government financing…..leading to the ease of raising tuition….leading to the ability to seriously inflate the salaries of college administrators and professors. A total manipulation of free markets.
That said, no one is holding a gun to the head of anyone to go to college and/or take on student loans. And if you do take on college, it is up to you to work / perform….and God forbid choose a sector with a financial future. And it is on you to pay it back. Like any other loan.
Taking taxpayer money and subsidizing philosophy majors / now baristas at the expense of the plumber is a slap in the face to anyone who either didn’t go to college or went and did not receive a handout.
OK, but fraud by whom? The parents? The colleges? Politicians? College was VERY valuable many years ago but not as much now. If everyone has a degree, it becomes worthless.
In addition, college tuition has skyrocketed. With all of Biden's socialist/communist agendas, it's funny how he never tried to impose price controls on secondary education. We all know that colleges are run and staffed by his supporters and the teachers union tells him not to touch their bank account.
Most of these colleges have MASSIVE endowments because they convinced everyone their institution is worth paying exorbitant prices.
We should be teaching economics in that 3-18 year age so when they go to take a student loan, they are smart enough not to finance more than they can ever hope to pay back. These are 18 year old adults making adult decisions. They should act like adults and pay them back. If it's difficult, then it's just another lesson our education system teaches them.
I think you just answered your own question as to fraud.
I hate Biden as much as the next guy but please provide any examples of Republicans daring to touch higher education bank accounts.
I’ve made the suggestion multiple times in here that republicans should seize every endowment to pay off student debt and the reactions on here are telling.
Brother you can’t saddle the young generation with debt and then subject them to an economy, which by and large prohibits them from paying the debt back. Gen Z was subjected to the highest cost of education, and then sent out into the market place which actively discriminated against young men and is now home to millions and millions of foreign laborers, cost of living increases, and inflation.
That was never part of the promise to millennials or gen z.
Now the question of what individual young men should do in response to being screwed is a different question than what should America do to its help its young men.
OK, well there is plenty of blame to go around, but the taxpayers who didn't take out those loans are not the culprit. I find it immoral and completely un-Christian to move that debt to tax payer and punish those who did not commit the offense.
As a Christian man, I look to Gods holy word to define my attitude on debt forgiveness. There are way too many to list but I encourage you to google Bible scripture on debt forgiveness and debt in general. Proverbs is a book full of common sense and it’s pretty clear that Solomon had wisdom when it came to personal finance. You don’t borrow what you can’t pay back. It comes down to personal responsibility. Luke 14:28 tells us that before building a tower that we should first sit down and calculate the cost to see if you have enough to complete it. Sounds pretty simple to me, you borrow only what you’re capable of paying back. It’s not a matter of being a “Christian” to forgive debt, especially when it isn’t actually forgiven but paid for by the rest of society.
Yeah, his intent wasn’t at all to act in a Christian manner; therefore, I wouldn’t classify it as Christian in anyway. Especially using other people’s money to forgive the loans. Now, if he was using his own generosity to do it, then we can talk.
Thank you for illustrating the callousness Christians have regarding this issue. Capitalism and corporate America has warped minds.
Exodus 22:25; Leviticus 25:35-38; Deuteronomy 23-19-29; Psalms 15:5 Jeremiah 15:10 all prohibit the charging of interest on loans given to the needy.
Is there a poorer demographic than 18-21 year olds?
I’m glad you brought up Solomon as he has this to add “he that by usury and unjust gain increase his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor”. Proverbs 28:8.
I note that jubilee also occurred under King Solomon.
There are dozens of places in the Bible were God forbids usury. It is a capital offense.
This is what is being done to hundreds thousands of 18 year old young men. Who are trapped in a debt cycle increasingly fewer can ever escape from.
Everyone who borrowed that money was promised by their country it was the route to the American Dream. This is not a case of a 40 year old man taking out a mortgage on a house he can’t afford, these are kids borrowing 6 figures based on the societal promise it would lead to employment where they could pay it back and live in comfort.
“Forgive us our debts, as we give our debtors”
Debts being paid is how debt is forgiven. Christ had to pay our debt with blood. Is my debt not forgiven because it was paid by someone else? Of course not.
And everything the government does is paid for by the rest of society so I’m not sure what your point is here? If we don’t want to use the government to the benefit of the citizenry than let’s first eliminate social security and Medicare.
There is a pretty simple solution to this issue: seize endowments, pay off the debt, get the federal government out of the student loan business.
Disagree.
A pagan who is kind to the poor with no intent to behave in a Christian manner is behaving Christ like in that action regardless of whether he is elect or not.
The instinct by most left wingers that the student loans are a racket and need to be fixed is more in line with Biblical principles than the old “bootstrap” song and dance in my opinion.
Biden = corrupt liar…tip your hat
You are focused on the wrong area. The Bible says not to borrow. That is where the issue starts because some have incurred debts without thinking through what the ramifications are and how it will impact them. You say it is “unchristian to not help them out’?
What about these verses:
21 The wicked borrow and do not repay, but the righteous give generously;
5 It is better not to make a vow than to make one and not fulfill it.
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Paying off their debts will not help them as much as you think.
No one is forcing anyone to go to colleges and incur massive amounts of debt. The are local colleges, students can work and offset their costs, etc.
This is misguided focus as you should always focus on the original sin or root cause first.
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I paid mine back. Everyone else should do the same.
When you go to college, you have to research what majors you will be most likely to be employed after college. Many students don’t do that. Also, furthering your education doesn’t always mean college. There are trade schools, community colleges, military, etc. Also, I don’t think getting a student loan serves most students. Some students don’t understand that they are expected to pay the loan off, or choose not to be responsible enough to.
1) The debt is not forgiven, it is transferred to the tax payers.
2) Biden and company have not offered to fix the system only punish the tax payers. Especially those that chose not to attend "college" and/or those that did and payed their own way. Is it Christian to treat people this way?
3) The prime reason for the extreme rise in cost of education is the easy money pumped into the education market by the government. Go review the laws of supply and demand!
4) No one ever promised anyone anything. However, it still hold true that if you attend a reasonably priced college and obtain an education that is valued, you will on average in your life out earned those who did not.
6) Soulless corporate entity? Worked long time for one and was a rewarding/learning/beneficial experience.
7) The generation you are referring to are still in their twenties and you act as if their life is hopeless! They have lots of time to make a good life.
This is just another example of irresponsible government. That is what the GenXers should be worried about!
I think the issue is too nuanced to come to that conclusion. On one hand, taking out loans that one knows they can’t pay back (which may not always be the case. A person may start school with full intention of paying them back) isn’t biblical; however, working hard to pay off one’s debt is biblical. On the other hand, helping folks pay off their student loans is good and all; however, if it’s not done with a humble and loving heart, then it’s not Christ like. For example, if someone helped the poor using another’s money, then would God really credit them as being generous? If someone helped the poor with full intention of gaining applause and/or political support, again, would God credit them as being generous? So I’ll end by saying I disagree with you, but because it’s too nuanced to be able to come to the conclusion you came to, not because it think it is or isn’t more Christ-like than the opposite.
1. I didn't saddle anyone with student debt. I paid for mine, my wife paid for hers and we paid for our 3 children
2. No one owes me for money they borrowed so how can I forgive their debt.
3. My responsibility is to help those that can't help themselves.
4. You are a budding communist suggesting that we all owe the little gay and female studies graduates for their irresponsible choices.
5. You are 100% wrong on this.
Using your biblical interpretation then maybe we should just go back to the year of jubilee and cancel everyone debts every 7 years. No more car loans, no more mortgages, no more credit card debt.
Would that be more Christian like to you? Surely you can’t blame young families for overextending themselves buying material goods knowing that their incomes can’t afford it. Young, middle aged or old, there has to be accountability for decisions. What life lessons are there for young people if they keep getting bailed out for making poor decisions. Is it asking too much for a young person to work part time while in school to help offset some of the loan amount needed? There are so many variables in each individual case but bottom line is if you can’t afford a college loan, get a job and save some money. It might prolong your education in years but you won’t be stuck with a burdensome debt long term.
Yes a Nation which held jubilee and included capital punishment for usury would in fact be more Christ like.
The vast majority of the populace is incapable of self government. (See almost 50% of the populace voting for Kamala).
Which is why usury is forbidden. Most people don’t make smart decisions.
“here’s you life lesson sonny, that choice you made to go college when you were 18, the choice American society pushes towards? Yeah well turns out here’s your debt you can never repay. Job? What job? Hope you learned your lesson!”
Well first of all I think any universities offering gay and female studies should be razed to the ground. Colleges should exclusively be centered around learning the Bible and classical humanities. With engineering medicine etc offered in graduate school.
Second, I don’t believe I’ve suggested that anyone on this board has the power to issue student loans so I certainly would never suggest you saddled someone with student debt.
Third, your government has already taken this money from you. It’s not giving it back. I am simply suggesting that instead of using our tax dollars to fund foreign wars and other countries, or any odious NGOs we should instead use that money to ensure we don’t have an entire generation living in debt and squalor with little prospects of ever owning anything. Nor am I suggesting a special tax be imposed to pay for this.
If I had my way all endowments would be seized to pay for it.
Communism has warped more minds than Capitalism ever has.
Let's look at some facts.
- The typical bachelor’s degree holder who borrowed owed between $20,000 and $24,999.
- Among borrowers with a postgraduate degree the median owed was between $40,000 and $49,999
Young college graduates with student loans still tend to have higher household incomes than their counterparts who haven’t completed college.
- 52.7% of indebted borrowers owe $20,000 or less in student loans.
- 32.1% of indebted student borrowers owe $10,000 or less in federal student loans.
- 15.0% of borrowers owe less than $5,000.
- 20.6% of borrowers owe between $10,000 and $20,000 in student loans.
- 18.1% owe $40,000 to $100,000.
- 7.5% owe $100,000 or more.
Of course, there are about 25% of loans over $40K and up over $100K. Bu those are almost all doctors, lawyers etc.
Instead of having someone else pay the debt they took on themselves, can we all agree they should get a free copy of Dave Ramsey's books and we can call it a day?
Maybe the young folks should hold off on their Starbucks latte every morning, their door dash purchases and whatever else online accounts they spend on in an attempt to be cool and keep up with the crowd, save some of their money and put it towards their loan payment. Life lessons can be difficult but are necessary.
Sure. The same if they shoplifted etc. sure the parents should have helped them make decisions. Sure it is more difficult now than it was in the past. Other things are a lot easier. God has promised we will suffer and have struggles in this life. He will provide the grace to see us through it however that might be. We do not always get what we want we only get what is needed to make us more Christ like.
This is a worthless argument in my opinion as you are looking at the solution coming from people who are not involved. Charity is great and we’re are called to give. We should not obligated by the government or by others.
While I disagree with your overall premise, I do think we should consider making these loans interest free. That would aid the individuals with debt but not place the financial burden on the US taxpayer (many of whom never attended college).
This is what I don’t understand. My daughter has student loans. Each semester when she renews those loans she signs a document outlining her total loan amount as well as the monthly payments on that loan (projected). I like to think my daughter is smarter than many (as most parents do). But how can anyone studying a field that will ultimately pay less than $50k/year sign a loan for >$100k and not ask themselves how they can repay that debt? It’s really not rocket science. As with most problems, solutions are born from experience and experience is usually gained by failure. Hopefully these folks will do a better job of advising their children than their parents did them.
This is what I don’t understand. My daughter has student loans. Each semester when she renews those loans she signs a document outlining her total loan amount as well as the monthly payments on that loan (projected). I like to think my daughter is smarter than many (as most parents do). But how can anyone studying a field that will ultimately pay less than $50k/year sign a loan for >$100k and not ask themselves how they can repay that debt? It’s really not rocket science. As with most problems, solutions are born from experience and experience is usually gained by failure. Hopefully these folks will do a better job of advising their children than their parents did them.
Should he offer to pay off their car loans too? With OUR tax dollars.
So are credit card rates, so why stop at student loans? No matter that we are running a $2T annual deficit as is.
The amazing thing is that many countries in this world do not allow scholarships or bank loans to certain college disciplines of study unless their exists the plausibility of a return of profit for that study
Only in the USA can you take out a 100k loan to study 17th century music or African American studies,...it's because in the USA you can have a degree in an obsolete field of study that pays nothing and still find work in a warehouse or construction that pays enough to pay back the student loan debt.
If you want to study music in Tanzania in college,....you have to pay for it in cash because the likelihood of earning a living in such a discipline is so low there,...and the chances of it being offered (as a result) as a college course is low also
Only in the USA can you take out a 100k loan to study 17th century music or African American studies,...it's because in the USA you can have a degree in an obsolete field of study that pays nothing and still find work in a warehouse or construction that pays enough to pay back the student loan debt.
If you want to study music in Tanzania in college,....you have to pay for it in cash because the likelihood of earning a living in such a discipline is so low there,...and the chances of it being offered (as a result) as a college course is low also
Odumbo started this mess about going to college. I agree if you have the money or are willing to work for it college is a great option. He also put the government in the loan business which is a stupid thing. Why would he want students to go to college? Most of our colleges are being run by a bunch of communist radicals that is brainwashing them instead of teaching them. You can make more money or just as much with a technical degree.
What a strange thread. Especially someone quoting scripture and discussing forgiveness and has made it apparent he hates Jews.
Obama wanted the Govt to take over the loans so later they could "forgive" them in their vote buying scheme. All part of the communist playbook and many Americans have fallen for it.
Yeah I can’t understand why he’s being called a Christian when he’s spending other people’s money on this. The taxpayers!
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