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On the issue of student loans, Biden is more Christian than 99% of the Republicans.

Not really. Things cost more, people make more. What doesn't change is the fact that people are responsible for their actions and their decisions. Students decide how they apply themselves. Students decide what their field of study is going to be. Students had good GPAs and Bad GPAs, Students have extracurricular activities and Some Don't. Some have Internships and some Don't. All of these things are factors in what kind of job someone gets when they get out of school. Same then as it is now.

Alright let’s put aside the fact how the government is not your neighbor.

Why didn’t you repay the debt you owe to God for sinning?
How do know he hasn’t? You can’t make that judgement on your fellow man.
 
How do know he hasn’t? You can’t make that judgement on your fellow man.
I just want to again clarify that I am doing fine, have a great job etc.

This entire thread is because there are thousands of not millions of millennials and zoomers that got stuck with an unfair hand.
 
Why didn’t you repay the debt you owe to God for sinning?
Because God/Jesus chose to repay that debt...he did not force taxpayers that never signed up for it to do it. Your metaphor is a poor one and your argument in this thread bastardizes Christianity to make a weak point.

Higher education cost does need a major overhaul...and discussion like having private institutions with billions in their endowments (who have made bank in many ways due to the increased cost) is legitimate to have....or service via ways that help the nation (like forgiveness of Teacher debt for X years of teaching).

Neither of those ideas (and there are others, as well) would be bad ones, even with whatever hurdles they have. Forgiving debt illegally (per SCOTUS) is not the answer.
 
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Because God/Jesus chose to repay that debt...he did not force taxpayers that never signed up for it to do it.
This is misses the point. We are incapable of paying the debt without Christ.

Many millennials and zoomers are incapable of paying their debts until late in life.

Higher education cost does need a major overhaul...and discussion like having private institutions with billions in their endowments (who have made bank in many ways due to the increased cost) is legitimate to have....or service via ways that help the nation (like forgiveness of Teacher debt for X years of teaching).

Neither of those ideas (and there are others, as well) would be bad ones, even with whatever hurdles they have. Forgiving debt illegally (per SCOTUS) is not the answer.
Putting that aside, are we in agreement then that if there were a way to forgive the debt, not transfer it, but forgive it which did not harm tax payers, we would both be for it?
 
This is misses the point. We are incapable of paying the debt without Christ.

Many millennials and zoomers are incapable of paying their debts until late in life.

I'll politely disagree and say you are completely missing the point, if you think that metaphor helps your argument. One debt is both spiritual and inherent, due to our sinful nature...and only one has ever been able to avoid it. The other debt is monetary and is a choice that many choose to take and some choose not to. We are burdening those that chose not to have this debt...with that debt.

The two examples in your metaphor are not a like in any way. As an aside...the 'incapable of paying until later..." is just an excuse. What did a vast majority of those you are championing choose to do during their 'payment pause'? Take vacations and increase their total debt.


Putting that aside, are we in agreement then that if there were a way to forgive the debt, not transfer it, but forgive it which did not harm tax payers, we would both be for it?

I would be "for" anything that puts the burdens on the institutions that have had exponential growth in their administration budget since the Fed took over student loans and offer those loans for highly expensive degrees with little to no chance to find a job that has similar $ value to what they charged.

I would also be "for" any form of debt forgiveness IF those having the loans forgiven had to engage in some sort of job or service that helps their communities. e.g. the Teacher loan forgiveness that I mentioned or perhaps military, etc.

I am not "for" blanket forgiveness just because. BTW, do you know who benefited the most from all of Biden's programs? Professionals with graduate degrees who already have high-paying jobs. There have been numerous reports on this.
 
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Tip of the cap when it’s due.
I understand the sentiment you're expressing here, but it is worth noting that Biden played a direct role in the creation of the modern student tax environment.

Doesn't change the problems of not adequately dealing with the problem at hand though.
 
Let’s eliminate social security and Medicare then.


https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/...s-in-the-wake-of-george-floyd-analysis-shows/



Again see above, trades are a fine option depending on what you want to do. But it certainly isn’t easier to do so now then it’s ever been. I don’t think a brick mason in 1974 had to worry about his bid being undercut by an illegal foreigner.
They are paying for the tuition at trade schools for people to go into the trade. There are very few people doing plumbing , welding, electrical, HVAC etc. Where I live there very few people to do these jobs and most are older and nearing retirement. If you show and do what you say you will and have the skill you can be very successful. Most young people do not have the work ethic and look for the easy way to do things. Hence all of these people trying to be influencers.

Eliminate Social Security for sure. I have been saying they need to raise the age and start converting younger people to another option ie IRA’s on their own etc.
Medicare is a totally different issue and much more difficult to handle.
 
Do you realize how many college students get these loans and just live off them, all while earning or trying to get meaningless degrees.... they get the most money they can so they can have an apartment, not have to work, and still go party and live the college life. Then you have the people that go to private colleges or expensive schools to major in marketing, business management, philosophy, art history, fine arts etc... How many kids have went to D3 schools just to play sports in college and then graduate with a degree and $100,000 in debt that degree cant pay off. My taxes should not go to bail these people out of the debt they accrued because of their choices. We have too many situations as i have mentioned to try and take the moral/religious high ground saying we should help the younger generation... College can open doors but even when i went I was under no delusion that once i graduated i was going to have this great career waiting for me.
I remember several kids each semester would wait until the money hit their account and never attend that class again. I used the GI Bill so I know we couldn't do that but I have no idea how that affected those that used the system for rent money, car payment, etc.
 
They are paying for the tuition at trade schools for people to go into the trade. There are very few people doing plumbing , welding, electrical, HVAC etc. Where I live there very few people to do these jobs and most are older and nearing retirement. If you show and do what you say you will and have the skill you can be very successful. Most young people do not have the work ethic and look for the easy way to do things. Hence all of these people trying to be influencers.

Eliminate Social Security for sure. I have been saying they need to raise the age and start converting younger people to another option ie IRA’s on their own etc.
Medicare is a totally different issue and much more difficult to handle.
Social Security will get you way less in retirement than private investments can so I'm all for that as well.
 
I just want to again clarify that I am doing fine, have a great job etc.

This entire thread is because there are thousands of not millions of millennials and zoomers that got stuck with an unfair hand.
Was it because they made bad career choices? You should major in something that when you graduate you will make enough money to live comfortably and pay off your debt .
 
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Was it because they made bad career choices? You should major in something that when you graduate you will make enough money to live comfortably and pay off your debt .
The answer to this question is not as simple as some zoomers and millennials choosing stupid degrees or not making straight A's. Although there are individuals that it no doubt applies to, I am speaking in generalizations ITT.

In my opinion, it is a combination of DEI (civil rights administration), unchecked immigration (legal and illegal), the infinite amounts of dollar bills congress has been printing for 20 years, America's free market policies, and the money dumped into American universities over the last decade plus. I will try to briefly address each in order:

DEI/Civil Rights Administration - The most tangible effects of the CRA has been felt in the last 5 years, white men are simply barred from entry to most companies with HR departments (which is most). Unless you have connections, you are screwed. You may find employment but your ceiling at your employer is low do to being white, Christian, straight, and male.

Unchecked immigration - put simply more labor equals more competition and decreasing wages. American men should not have to compete against foreign workers. But not only are they now competing for employment they are competing for spots in lawschool, medschool, undergrad etc. And due to the CRA, these immigrants are a protected class as a matter of law so any admission standards colleges have which statistically results in less members of a protected class being accepted is presumed racist (illegal) as a matter of law. Of course the Court did away with Affirmative Action recently but its about 20 years too late, these colleges are staffed with true believers.

In infinite amount of dollar bills - I'll just touch on one thing here, rampant inflation.

Free Market - people don't like to hear this but NAFTA, trade with china, sending all manufacturing etc to third world countries is the free market. I'll touch on one of the effects here. Put simply, our manufacturing sector of the economy, which provided good jobs and fulfilling employment without the need for college no longer exists. This drives a number of people to college that are not suited for it.


Dumping of money into universities - this ties into some of my previous posts talking about the relationship of the government as the lender. One of the crooked affects there is it takes all risks away from colleges when it comes to underwriting what students it accepts and what degrees they allow. These colleges are incentivized to accept as many as possible and charge as much as possible because the colleges know the government will always pay the bill for them.

There are others and this a simple explanation of a complicated issue but its not just the gays on campus majoring in dance who can't afford their loans. For a recent example see Elon Musk's and Vivek's twitter meltdown over H1B visas. Even American engineers are being replaced by foreign labor.
 
The answer to this question is not as simple as some zoomers and millennials choosing stupid degrees or not making straight A's. Although there are individuals that it no doubt applies to, I am speaking in generalizations ITT.

In my opinion, it is a combination of DEI (civil rights administration), unchecked immigration (legal and illegal), the infinite amounts of dollar bills congress has been printing for 20 years, America's free market policies, and the money dumped into American universities over the last decade plus. I will try to briefly address each in order:

DEI/Civil Rights Administration - The most tangible effects of the CRA has been felt in the last 5 years, white men are simply barred from entry to most companies with HR departments (which is most). Unless you have connections, you are screwed. You may find employment but your ceiling at your employer is low do to being white, Christian, straight, and male.

Unchecked immigration - put simply more labor equals more competition and decreasing wages. American men should not have to compete against foreign workers. But not only are they now competing for employment they are competing for spots in lawschool, medschool, undergrad etc. And due to the CRA, these immigrants are a protected class as a matter of law so any admission standards colleges have which statistically results in less members of a protected class being accepted is presumed racist (illegal) as a matter of law. Of course the Court did away with Affirmative Action recently but its about 20 years too late, these colleges are staffed with true believers.

In infinite amount of dollar bills - I'll just touch on one thing here, rampant inflation.

Free Market - people don't like to hear this but NAFTA, trade with china, sending all manufacturing etc to third world countries is the free market. I'll touch on one of the effects here. Put simply, our manufacturing sector of the economy, which provided good jobs and fulfilling employment without the need for college no longer exists. This drives a number of people to college that are not suited for it.


Dumping of money into universities - this ties into some of my previous posts talking about the relationship of the government as the lender. One of the crooked affects there is it takes all risks away from colleges when it comes to underwriting what students it accepts and what degrees they allow. These colleges are incentivized to accept as many as possible and charge as much as possible because the colleges know the government will always pay the bill for them.

There are others and this a simple explanation of a complicated issue but its not just the gays on campus majoring in dance who can't afford their loans. For a recent example see Elon Musk's and Vivek's twitter meltdown over H1B visas. Even American engineers are being replaced by foreign labor.
I stopped reading during the first paragraph about the discrimination of white male Americans! I had no idea Biden would sink so low to do such a thing. I guess that was his sick way of fighting the so called white supremeist. I am sure our new president will put a stop to this madness.
 
The student loan debt issue is almost entirely due government backed ease of access to funds with nothing more than a signature required to secure the loan. Colleges have jacked up tuition rates and fees to and swelled staffs with staff and teaching positions that literally have no market value outside of academia.

This gets really simple, make money harder to get using a vetting process for loans that applies ratios that take total debt and ability to repay into account and you’ll see college demand drop until the schools bring their costs in line with realistic market pricing conditions. Systems like Hope can fund tuition for students that perform academically.

If we gave away government backed money to buy houses with no strings to anybody who could sign their name like they hand it out for college, tax payers would be on the hook for massive under performing loans while housing prices themselves would be inflated beyond the ridiculous mess we see today.
 
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The student loan debt issue is almost entirely due government backed ease of access to funds with nothing more than a signature required to secure the loan. Colleges have jacked up tuition rates and fees to and swelled staffs with staff and teaching positions that literally only have no market value outside of academia.

This gets really simple, make money harder to get using a vetting process for loans that applies ratios that take total debt and ability to repay into account and you’ll see college demand drop until the schools bring their costs in line with realistic market pricing conditions. Systems like Hope can fund tuition for students that perform academically.

If we gave away government backed money to buy houses with no strings to anybody who could sign their name like they hand it out for college, tax payers would be on the hook for massive under performing loans while housing prices themselves would be inflated beyond the ridiculous mess we see today.
I think we saw something similar back in the 90s where the government let people buy houses without down payments. It was a mess when all of the foreclosures started flowing in.
 
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Alright let’s put aside the fact how the government is not your neighbor.

Why didn’t you repay the debt you owe to God for sinning?
This is an obvious troll, but Jesus paid the debt. You seem to think kids should be able to make whatever decisions they want with no consequences. Parents with this mindset is why we have a generation of entitled children.
 
This is an obvious troll
What is weird about this entire thread to me is how personally some of yall take it. Not trolling.


Jesus paid the debt

Right. Because we needed a savior as man is incapable of paying the debt of sin. There are a large number of young people incapable of paying this debt until they are well into their 50s. Do you still think forgiving these loans is somehow sinful?


You seem to think kids should be able to make whatever decisions they want with no consequences.


I think anyone, including kids, who are the victims of fraudulent inducement and usury should not be stuck with the usurious loan, yes.


Parents with this mindset is why we have a generation of entitled children.

I think the biggest disconnect here is there are a number of people from the older generations incapable of seeing how radically worse America is for Americans in 2025 then it was even 15 years ago, much less back in the 80s.
 
What is weird about this entire thread to me is how personally some of yall take it. Not trolling.




Right. Because we needed a savior as man is incapable of paying the debt of sin. There are a large number of young people incapable of paying this debt until they are well into their 50s. Do you still think forgiving these loans is somehow sinful?





I think anyone, including kids, who are the victims of fraudulent inducement and usury should not be stuck with the usurious loan, yes.




I think the biggest disconnect here is there are a number of people from the older generations incapable of seeing how radically worse America is for Americans in 2025 then it was even 15 years ago, much less back in the 80s.
You keep saying usury. Student loans in my opinion do not fit that category. Usury is more related to credit card rates.
The issue with higher education is the inflated costs and the bastardization of what qualifies as education these days. It is more propaganda and indoctrination and setting young people up for failure. You can still get a degree without incurring massive debt. It requires restraint and rational thinking which the public schools do not teach. They teach you to follow your emotions and do what feels right. That is the problem and what your continue to push is a symptom of the major problem.
 
You keep saying usury. Student loans in my opinion do not fit that category. Usury is more related to credit card rates.
The issue with higher education is the inflated costs and the bastardization of what qualifies as education these days. It is more propaganda and indoctrination and setting young people up for failure. You can still get a degree without incurring massive debt. It requires restraint and rational thinking which the public schools do not teach. They teach you to follow your emotions and do what feels right. That is the problem and what your continue to push is a symptom of the major problem.
Putting aside the disagreement regarding usury, everything you said after that I agree with 100%.

It does require major restraint and rational thinking, something the majority of people, much less 18 year old kids, have a difficult time with. Which is why I don't believe this is like someone financing a car they can't afford on their salary, these young people who just did what society told them to do and our suffering because of it (Again generally not specifically).

I think where we disagree is the solution to the above problem, we are probably in line on getting the government out of the student loan business and making the colleges underwrite the risk.

We are clearly in disagreement regarding whether the government should forgive the loans they propagandized in entire generation into getting - I propose seizing the endowments to pay the debt.
 
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Tip of the cap when it’s due.
The reason the government have to get involved now is because their creation of the student loan programs and exponential explosion of it created the debt problem we’re in now. Don’t kill yourself dude it’s like every other bail out the cost of any higher education went through the roof and became big business the government handed out money and everybody made out except the students. They **** up everything they touch dude
 
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What? Student "Loans" is un Christian. The bible says the Borrow is slave to the Lender and to return payment as quickly as possible. As a parent of a child in college I am doing everything I can to pay her school myself no loans. It drives me insane to watch people take loans for useless degrees and misspend the money they get and then cry about it. The only reason Dems try and do it is to try and buy votes.
 
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Sure, this is a point of disagreement between me and my fellow right wingers on this board. I’ll try to summarize as briefly as I can. *ended up not being that brief*


Our entire educational system/ societal structure (whatever you call it) teaches young people from the time they are 3 to the time they are 18 that if they want a slice of the American dream they must go to college. Going to college is expensive and saddles people with at minimum thousands of dollars of non dischargable debt but America tells its youth not to worry about that because of the promise of the American dream.

But due to a number of reasons, that is rarely true in 2025. Graduating from college no longer secures fulfilling employment which allows young people to purchase a home and start a family (there are exceptions obviously I’m just talking about the general rule). Instead they will be working for a soulless corporate entity, making the same wage their father did 30 years ago when rent, gas, groceries etc has all risen by 300%.

It’s fraud and it’s usurious and if we as a society don’t want millions and millions of young people saddled with debt they will never pay off something has to be done.
Actually scripture says give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.

It also says a man should have no qualm with a financial agreement he agrees to.

So how is breaking a consensual financial agreement being a Christian?
 
Disagree.

A pagan who is kind to the poor with no intent to behave in a Christian manner is behaving Christ like in that action regardless of whether he is elect or not.

The instinct by most left wingers that the student loans are a racket and need to be fixed is more in line with Biblical principles than the old “bootstrap” song and dance in my opinion.
it really is shameful what the Obama admin did with loans as a means to subsidize the ACA.

While I think college costs are z ridiculous, I think giving 18 year olds a pass is ridiculous as well. If kids even attempted to do something alternative to the “4 year” experience I could get on board. Juco, working to defray part of the expense while the loan is in deferral are counter to popular culture but are all viable options. Not my job to subsidize somebody else’s kid’s bad decisions.
 
That is fantastic that you and your wife helped your children pay off their debt. That is what parents are supposed to do.

But, and again, most of Gen Z and millennials don’t have that safety net, good parents willing and able to do so.
defining a parent as good because they pay off a debt is a joke. lots of good parents can’t do that nor should they.
 
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