So what is your country of choice? When are you making the move to your choice? Two simple questions that should have two simple answers if you truly disagree. Not even a debate, just two simple answers.
SIAP Dabo trending on twitter again...
- Thread starter MacGATA
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A wise man said we will never solve these problems on the Vent. I appreciate your efforts, but I think the solutions you propose are unrealistic and largely based on intuition, not data.
Getting money out of politics? Let’s say you ban corporations from donating, what do you think happens? Media corporations form, and then are you going to distinguish which ones are electioneering corporations, or just media corporations; imagine how that’s going to work out in the court system. Are Facebook/Google, etc. restricted, or are they exempt? Every effort that has been made over the years has just resulted in the money popping up in some other way, and that’s going to be more prevalent than ever given the number of communication mediums available these days. There will continue to be one durable method of combating problematic speech, and that is with more speech.
With respect to other countries and healthcare, it doesn’t matter that they are willing to pay for it, we aren’t. They all use a VAT; we don’t, and neither political party has any interest in adopting one. The most ideologically inclined state in the country considered a universal healthcare plan and quickly scrapped the idea because the numbers simply didn’t add up. If you can make the math work, which will involve taxing the middle class in someway shape or form, that’s great, but neither political party is interested in doing that.
It’s an interesting point on education, have you looked at the states that have adopted centralized funding mechanisms, and observed the data to see whether it it actually impacted the results in the school districts? I get the intuitive appeal, but there have been efforts to eradicate the disparities you mentioned.
It’s interesting that you mention some of the Asian countries; they outperform our students even when we are spending more per pupil. It’s fine to point out that we don’t spend equally, but relative to other students in the world, we spend more, and still get worse results. Does that matter?
On the criminalization, the answer you give is the popular one, and the easy one, and I agree with a significant part of it, because there are certain offenses that have been over-criminalized. The flipside, however, is that there were more dangerous criminals taken off the streets during these periods of incarceration, and there were benefits to doing so. Certainly costs as well, but don’t dismiss the benefits, and some of those benefits impacted minority communities more than others. Will a shift in policy result in more favorable outcomes overall? I’m not sure, but are you going to own it if it doesn’t?
I guess the most troubling thing when I read something like this is that almost every ounce of it is focused on money, and allocating it from one group to another, and not a peep about any of the social and cultural problems that we have, and make no mistake, social and cultural problems are not unique to any race or ethnicity. And as is typically the case, there is 0% of the political oxygen devoted to anything other than how to allocate resources between groups. Even in the best of times, those competitions involve extraordinary political fights and divides, and they take decades and centuries to resolve, so the path you are taking almost guarantees another 50 to 60 years of similar results. Are you satisfied with that?
i’m sure we won’t resolve any of these issues here, but I do appreciate the respectful dialogue.
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Wasn't talking about asylum, only illegal immigration. Well since I work for myself, I think they suck. I would have a much better retirement plan without the government interference. I lost a great medical plan thanks to obamacare. My health insurance was cancelled, and thanks to the unaffordable care act care I went from a 300.00 a month premium for a hospitilization only plan with 2000.00 deductible. I paid for my own doctor visits, to a 900.00 dollar a month plan, that my portion was 450.00. to the next year for the same plan, went from 900.00 to 1700.00 , my portion was now 900.00. So I dropped to the lowest plan they had. which was 300.00 and something, with a ridiculous 12 grand deductible. Since they dropped the mandate I cancelled it. I am looking at some different plans now, but have no insurance now. Since I don;t have an employer I don't get unemployment. I don't have a problem with a safety net temporarily to help people, but it should go into an account that the government can't touch, or have any control over. We both know that the money I paid into Social Security, all these years is gone, and what I'm paying in now, is going to retirees today. I'm assuming your young, so pretty soon what your paying in will go to me, and in the future, it will become less and less, and the retirement age, will have to creep up, till eventually like all social programs. you run out of other peoples money.
Everything I said is supported by data. What points are you specifically referring to that are based on intuition? Bankruptcies? Incarceration rates? Student outcomes for minorities? Healthcare coverage for minorities? The rising gap between the rich and the poor? Please specify and I’ll share.
the reasons we won’t pay for healthcare are the insurance and drug company lobbies (to both political parties).. the reason we got stuck with the affordable care act is that DEMS killed the public option. many countries with less burdensome tax structures still provide healthcare for their citizens. Why should Americans pay more than anyone else? Why are we allowing PE firms purchase drug patents so they can arbitrarily raise drug prices On things like insulin and hiv drugs 1000+%.... healthcare costs will go down if insurance companies are forced to compete with a public option.
im not saying don’t incarcerate ppl at all - I’m saying take the industry and therefore the inappropriate incentives out of it... 100% supported by data.
we outspend countries in asia on education.... But the vast majority of that spending is only allocated to a smaller proportion of student.... thus worse student outcomes as a whole... what am I missing here? I think ppl universally agree that teachers as a whole are undervalued in our society... wages relative to median incomes supports that.
Allowing ppl, not specific races, to break the cycle of poverty will result in greater outcomes for society at large. Like I said earlier... it’s not specifically a race problem, it’s a class/ income inequality problem that disproportionately effects minority groups.... because the two things are linked. Adjusting incentives for healthcare and prison system is not taking from one and giving to another? Providing healthcare to our citizens and not allowing exorbitant healthcare costs to limit their prosperity will have better outcomes society. Increased consumption across all segments of society is good for the economy. Tax dollar allocation for education is the problem... there is no giving anything to another group. Localization of education funding perpetuated by gerrymandering and redlining is the problem.
How do you address the issue that lower socioeconomic demographics reproduce more than upper/ middle class families... thus increasing the welfare state over generations without upward social mobility.... it is not sustainable. If my proposals aren’t the solutions to the rising gap between the rich and the poor, what say you?
I too appreciate the dialogue. Respectful discourse can only be productive
I'm nine years from retirement, Chief, and that's only because my youngest is a HS Jr. to be. Of course what you paid into SS is gone, that's how it works. You paid for the retirees before you. Social programs 'run out of money' because one political party chokes the life out of them to give tax breaks to their buddies. Ever lived in a full-on Social Democracy? Do you think they worry about retirement or health care (rhetorical question: I have and no, they don't)? We just are not a mature enough country to provide that level of freedom.
Any and all; you say that tax rates are higher here than other countries, but look at the middle class tax here versus Denmark, we pay less in taxes. Given the prevalence of VAT taxes, I suspect that’s the case in most of those comparisons. The marginal rate of middle-class incomes has gone way down over the years, and at the federal level in particular, there’s not much of an effort or appetite to extract any additional money from the middle class, because it’s so politically difficult. But there’s no way to pay for the healthcare program you are talking about without doing so, there just isn’t money available. Like I said, California considered it, realized it was a pipe dream, and abandoned it. If you want to talk about a social security type program, where everyone pays in, I think that’s reasonable, but if you’re suggesting that the federal government adopt a Medicare plan for all, and then not impose additional taxes on the people who are the beneficiaries of that program, well, I’d like to see the numbers you’re working from.
Similarly, it’s just not the case that the unequal distribution of school spending explains our terrible performance vis-à-vis other countries. These countries spend even less then some of our poorer school districts, and they still outperform us by wide margins. It’s not all about how much money is spent. How that money is spent, whether it goes to teachers or administrators, and whether the teachers are supported by the parents, make huge differences in outcomes.
I can’t do anything more extended as paid tasks have to come first tonight, but I’ll leave you again with this on the crime point: it’s really easy to forget what it was like in the early 90s, but there is a reason that politicians were doing so much grandstanding about being tough on crime. In hindsight, we almost certainly over corrected, and I don’t have any problem making changes, but I am perfectly willing to let the people who want to heavily decriminalize things and lower prison sentences take a shot at it, but again I ask, are you prepared to own it? Because the burden of that increase in crime is likely to fall on our most impoverished citizens.
Thank you. On social issues, you’re my favorite Poster on the Vent.
The rationalization of shaming may make you feel better, but it is wrongheaded and counterproductive. I could say more, but the people at Harpers, who are generally left of where I am, said it much better than I could. They are right.
https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/
Thank you, not sure I deserve any recognition of that sort, but I appreciate it nonetheless.
I was implying that you must partake in some form of hard substance that prohibits your ability to comprehend or post intelligently. Should’ve known I would have to spell it out for you.
Sorry bud....I would have said the same about you, but it must be that your an idiot. I wouldn’t let drugs be the excuse to let you off the hook.
It’s amazing how many people I have seen in the last 25 years that don’t look like me get away with that type of “shoplifting”. When everyone starts getting arrested for opening items that they are purchasing then your point will be valid. Until then, call it what it really is. I have never stole a thing or attempted to still a thing in my life and have worked for everything I have. My kids have been taught that just because they see their friends do certain things without repercussion, they need to continue to toe the line of perfection. Since all of my kids friends are white, it is a valuable lesson that they must learn in a country that their dad fights for everyday. Meanwhile, shitbags like you who have never done anything for anybody other than yourself get to come on here and exercise your freedom to be sarcastic and troll others. It is a freedom that better men than yourself have provided you. You’re welcome.
I’m sure you’re a good parent. I shouldn’t have even commented on that thread. Sorry I offended you.
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Eeesh....now your getting desperate and trying to walk out of it....good call, you should probably go take a lap son.
Yes, I've heard of these great liberal utopias. Every election when the liberals lose, I hear all the elites and movie stars claim that if so and so gets elected, I'm leaving the USA and going to (pick one) and yet here they still are. My taxes, for the first time in a long time, went down last year. I didn't know I was so well connected, to that party, that I'm there buddy now. I don't know you, but I like you. I can tell that your passionate about your beliefs, and you haven't resorted to personal attacks on people you don't know. This my friend is what makes this country so great, people with different beliefs, backgrounds, opinions, can debate back and forth. But at the end of the day, We still love this country, and wouldn't won't to be anywhere else. Even though we don't agree politically, I'm sure there are many ways that we are similar. My kids are all gone now, and have kids of their own. My son works in D.C. for a private company, contracted out to Homeland Security. If you ever want to hear nightmare stories about government dysfunction and having to worry more about being politically correct, than doing your job, you should talk to him. Anyway my friend, I wish you all the best, and look forward to spending someone elses money when I retire.
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