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So the 10 year old rape victim from Ohio that

The religious right and their representatives at the state and federal level did not want the story to be true because they absolutely do not want to admit the actual impact of these draconian laws that are being passed, with worse to come in the future. It highlights the undeniable horror these laws will put victims of sex crimes through, including but not limited to the child victims.

How people who consider themselves Christians can support no exceptions for rape and incest is truly beyond my comprehension as it represents a total disregard for those who deserve our greatest compassion, understanding and support.
Undeniable horror- you mean like aborting babies at 8.5 months? Like that?
 
Undeniable horror- you mean like aborting babies at 8.5 months? Like that?
Aborting a healthy fetus at 8.5 months is murder unless the life of the mother is directly threatened. That's a horrible decision to face for those involved and I wouldn't presume to impose my beliefs on such a difficult and personal decision.

Abortions occurring at less than 13 weeks represent 91% of the total, 14-20 weeks 8% and after 21 weeks or later 1%. Of that 1%, many involve very difficult decisions that extend well beyond a matter of convenience.
 
Aborting a healthy fetus at 8.5 months is murder unless the life of the mother is directly threatened. That's a horrible decision to face for those involved and I wouldn't presume to impose my beliefs on such a difficult and personal decision.

Abortions occurring at less than 13 weeks represent 91% of the total, 14-20 weeks 8% and after 21 weeks or later 1%. Of that 1%, many involve very difficult decisions that extend well beyond a matter of convenience.
It's almost as if ... the litedawg hasn't thought through the personal implications of carrying a child for 8.5 months, talking about it with family, friends and co-workers, perhaps decorating the nursery, opening the 529 account, etc.

Can you imagine the sort of news that must drive a choice to abort a fetus at that time?

An undeniable horror, no doubt.
 
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d

It's pretty ghoulish of you guys to just doubt every aspect of this story, as if the existing encroachment on the right to privacy were not enough.

There will be many more stories like this... and you knew that would be true when you crowed about the repeal of Roe.

We don't know whether or why she had to go to Indiana because it is none of our business, but we know that others will have to do so because there is no rape exception in Ohio (as in other red states).
Well you forgot 1 important fact. Ohio said the law did not prevent her from having an abortion in Ohio, if in fact any of this is true. So there is that. I know it doesn't jive with the baby killer agenda but that is a fact.
 
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It's almost as if ... the litedawg hasn't thought through the personal implications of carrying a child for 8.5 months, talking about it with family, friends and co-workers, perhaps decorating the nursery, opening the 529 account, etc.

Can you imagine the sort of news that must drive a choice to abort a fetus at that time?

An undeniable horror, no doubt.
Its almost as if the marmot hasn't considered the fact that a human is being murdered. It is amazing how many of the dim party have no concern about God and the sanctity of human life. Don't go saying you read it different. You don't care is the truth. No dim does. The Bible says that God and his word are the same always. It doesn't change for your political convenience.
 
Well you forgot 1 important fact. Ohio said the law did not prevent her from having an abortion in Ohio, if in fact any of this is true. So there is that. I know it doesn't jive with the baby killer agenda but that is a fact.
source it. you may find that you are wrong.
 
Its almost as if the marmot hasn't considered the fact that a human is being murdered. It is amazing how many of the dim party have no concern about God and the sanctity of human life. Don't go saying you read it different. You don't care is the truth. No dim does. The Bible says that God and his word are the same always. It doesn't change for your political convenience.
You hit the nail on the head. There is an undeniable truth that the other side does not believe that life is sacred and that it is God given and begins at conception. This is the basis for our differences. We believe that God is involved and if you don’t believe in God then you can’t possibly understand our position.
 
source it. you may find that you are wrong.
Here you go. I only did this because I know you depend on left wing news which ALWAYS spins the lies that the dim party needs its gullible voters to buy off on. This is from the OHIO STATE ATTOURNY GENERAL... someone that will know better than snopes or a washington post or nyt reporter. SMH. Use some of the brains you were given and get several opinions and look at the facts and think for yourself instead of buying in on evey bit of propaganda the dims and its media sycophants spew. Next time I'm not bailing you out. You need to learn to do some thinking for yourself.

 
You hit the nail on the head. There is an undeniable truth that the other side does not believe that life is sacred and that it is God given and begins at conception. This is the basis for our differences. We believe that God is involved and if you don’t believe in God then you can’t possibly understand our position.
I think there are others like me who understand your position and respect your choice to live your life guided by your faith.

The issue is that we are not a theocracy and yours is a minority opinion, in fact by a significant margin.
 
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Let the people decide not a liberal court, the Court cannot make a law. That’s what this is all about.
Why should anyone have a say over a medical procedure that affect you and no one else? So the "people" should vote on what people can and can not do in their personal life?
 
You hit the nail on the head. There is an undeniable truth that the other side does not believe that life is sacred and that it is God given and begins at conception. This is the basis for our differences. We believe that God is involved and if you don’t believe in God then you can’t possibly understand our position.
One issue is practicality (in most states that is, there may be a few states that would favor an outright ban).

An outright ban disengages so many people that it can ultimately damage how much pro-life progress can be made.

For example, from what I could find about 43% of abortions are performed in the first 6 weeks. Disregarding changes in behavior likely to occur, that's 23,700 babies saved in Georgia alone. A big win, and there are a number of states in favor of something like this.

Even if in others the agreement is merely first trimester, it makes a difference. Saving 10% of US aborted babies gives us about 93,000 babies. That's a material difference. Maybe the answer to cancer is in that 93k?

It's already half, but personally I think a clear majority of Americans would be open to a general 6 week law if it explicitly carried rape/incest/risk exceptions and a tangible effort was made to provide the whole gamut of OTC contraceptives at affordable costs. Between changing behaviors and acting with any semblance of common sense and due diligence - there is plenty of runway for people to make pregnancy preventing decisions.
 
T

The issue is that we are not a theocracy and yours is a minority opinion, in fact by a significant margin.
The issue is, dims want to force me to help pay for their murder, and whether we live in a theocracy or not, Gods law supersedes mans law always. You people that put your faith in man and his "feelings" are not going to be happy in that day.
 
Why should anyone have a say over a medical procedure that affect you and no one else? So the "people" should vote on what people can and can not do in their personal life?
hmmmmm dims think they have the right to make everyone be vaxed. You are one or them. 2nd. You want my tax dollars to pay for your blood lust. It is despicable that a segment of people that "claim" to be all about the people, and for the rights of everyone to do or be whatever they want, think so little of the most innocent, most unable to defend themselves. I think it speaks loudly that dims do not care at all about anything other than whatever their perverted desires are. I want to see a show of hands. Do you believe that God created us and the world that we all live in? If not say so. I'm not going to argue with you. I will just dust my shoes off, warn others about you and move on.
 
I think there are others like me who understand your position and respect your choice to live your life guided by your faith.

The issue is that we are not a theocracy and yours is a minority opinion, in fact by a significant margin.
Take religious beliefs out of the argument. Scientifically and biologically do you believe that the fetus is part of the woman's body? You do know that the fetus has a completely different and unique DNA from the mother. Scientifically how can the argument be made that it is part of the woman thus giving her the right to have it removed with no rights given to the unique life inside her?
 
What are your thoughts on paper abortions? I'm curious as to the liberal perspective on this.
Not for it at all. There are many disadvantages and advantages between the sex and don't think paper abortions is a smart societal way to balance the scales between the sexes.
 
I think there are others like me who understand your position and respect your choice to live your life guided by your faith.

The issue is that we are not a theocracy and yours is a minority opinion, in fact by a significant margin.

I don't think it's as significant of a margin as you may believe. Polls indicate about 35% of Americans believe life begins at conception, and another 25-30% believe it begins at first heartbeat.

One such example:


At what point do you personally believe life begins?
 
Not for it at all. There are many disadvantages and advantages between the sex and don't think paper abortions is a smart societal way to balance the scales between the sexes.

I hear you, but I think a true "pro-choice" stance includes allowing paper abortions. If the woman wants to carry the child to term against the will of the man, why should he be denied the opportunity to "walk away" from the situation?

I agree with you on the disastrous social ramifications, but this is simple application of "choice". If the woman can decide whether to abort (possibly against the wishes of the father), the man shouldn't be forced to provide financially for a child he doesn't want.
 
I hear you, but I think a true "pro-choice" stance includes allowing paper abortions. If the woman wants to carry the child to term against the will of the man, why should he be denied the opportunity to "walk away" from the situation?

I agree with you on the disastrous social ramifications, but this is simple application of "choice". If the woman can decide whether to abort (possibly against the wishes of the father), the man shouldn't be forced to provide financially for a child he doesn't want.
Again many things not equal between the sexes. Women get that right because they physically are forced to carry while the man can do nothing.....hell man doesn't even have to pay for child support or medical bills. So yeah not for paper abortions at all. Now if both parties agree to it, then go for it.
 
Take religious beliefs out of the argument. Scientifically and biologically do you believe that the fetus is part of the woman's body? You do know that the fetus has a completely different and unique DNA from the mother. Scientifically how can the argument be made that it is part of the woman thus giving her the right to have it removed with no rights given to the unique life inside her?
They want the choice but none of the responsibility that goes with the choice to procreate.
 
Again many things not equal between the sexes. Women get that right because they physically are forced to carry while the man can do nothing.....hell man doesn't even have to pay for child support or medical bills. So yeah not for paper abortions at all. Now if both parties agree to it, then go for it.

But similar to some of the reasons for abortion, there are situation (albeit rare) in which men can impregnate against their will. For instance, if they are drugged/raped by a woman.

Even though we disagree here, I respect the argument. So I'd also like to know how forcing a man to have a financial and emotional stake in a child he doesn't want is supposed to, in any capacity, level out the "inequality" between the sexes.
 
Take religious beliefs out of the argument. Scientifically and biologically do you believe that the fetus is part of the woman's body? You do know that the fetus has a completely different and unique DNA from the mother. Scientifically how can the argument be made that it is part of the woman thus giving her the right to have it removed with no rights given to the unique life inside her?
Crickets
 
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It was my son's birthday and we went out to dinner. Some of us do occasionally have responsibilities outside of engaging in the brilliant dialogue here on the chat.

I understand your argument even if I disagree and as I have said on here many times I would not even attempt to change your mind. For me, the time around first movement to fetal viability is when the consideration of fetal rights changes significantly. You say the rights of the fetus must be considered from inception, but what about the rights of the mother? Why does she not have the right to determine what is in the best interest of herself and the potential child she is carrying?

The fact that many of the new laws specifically do not accommodate exceptions for rape says a lot about the extremism of some of the pro-life forces and that they will not stop until they have achieved a nationwide ban on all abortions. I have no doubt that these same forces, as outlined by Clarence Thomas's contribution to the ruling, desire to impose their religious views through legislation on the topic of same sex marriage and a host of other behaviours they find sacrilegious.

To be clear, I defend the right of anyone in this country to make the choices in life that allow them to remain true to their beliefs as long as they allow others to do the same. I believe that was the clearly articulated intent of the founders and it's part of what makes us unique as a country.

Despite the stated desire of some, we are not now and have never been a Christian theocracy. Five of the six justices that make up the current conservative SCOTUS majority were nominated by a president who lost the popular vote and the 50 current republican senators represent only 43% of the US population so clearly the right has some structural advantages. Regardless, roughly 81% of the people in this country believe abortion should be available under some or all circumstances. That is a dominant majority and as Trump himself said after the ruling, this victory may have some unintended consequences in future elections. We will see over the coming few years.
 
It was my son's birthday and we went out to dinner. Some of us do occasionally have responsibilities outside of engaging in the brilliant dialogue here on the chat.

I understand your argument even if I disagree and as I have said on here many times I would not even attempt to change your mind. For me, the time around first movement to fetal viability is when the consideration of fetal rights changes significantly. You say the rights of the fetus must be considered from inception, but what about the rights of the mother? Why does she not have the right to determine what is in the best interest of herself and the potential child she is carrying?

The fact that many of the new laws specifically do not accommodate exceptions for rape says a lot about the extremism of some of the pro-life forces and that they will not stop until they have achieved a nationwide ban on all abortions. I have no doubt that these same forces, as outlined by Clarence Thomas's contribution to the ruling, desire to impose their religious views through legislation on the topic of same sex marriage and a host of other behaviours they find sacrilegious.

To be clear, I defend the right of anyone in this country to make the choices in life that allow them to remain true to their beliefs as long as they allow others to do the same. I believe that was the clearly articulated intent of the founders and it's part of what makes us unique as a country.

Despite the stated desire of some, we are not now and have never been a Christian theocracy. Five of the six justices that make up the current conservative SCOTUS majority were nominated by a president who lost the popular vote and the 50 current republican senators represent only 43% of the US population so clearly the right has some structural advantages. Regardless, roughly 81% of the people in this country believe abortion should be available under some or all circumstances. That is a dominant majority and as Trump himself said after the ruling, this victory may have some unintended consequences in future elections. We will see over the coming few years.
You have such a more abundant life than the rest of us. God bless.
 
You have such a more abundant life than the rest of us. God bless.
Hardley, but I don't throw out the "crickets" comment when someone takes a few hours in the middle of a Thursday evening to respond to me. This is obviously an emotional topic for all involved and I interpreted the comment as quite smug. There is a chance the gin martini I enjoyed with dinner might have contributed to the initial tone of my response.

I try and keep it respectful around here and always appreciate it when other do the same. Cheers.
 
It's almost as if ... the litedawg hasn't thought through the personal implications of carrying a child for 8.5 months, talking about it with family, friends and co-workers, perhaps decorating the nursery, opening the 529 account, etc.

Can you imagine the sort of news that must drive a choice to abort a fetus at that time?

An undeniable horror, no doubt.
Man you guys are something else. Yall are full of crap.
 
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