To me this is the epitome of what is blowing my mind

[willdup]

This is just fruitless. You vomit information to back the end result without considering the overall perpsective of what is going on in our country. Both sides are focused on trees and cutting them down and ignoring that the forest is on fire and more fuel is being poured on it as we speak.

An effort by a sitting POTUS to ignore the will of the electorate and disrupt the peaceful transfer of power is about as forest as it gets for a representative republic, which is no longer a representative republic as soon as that happens.

I respectfully suggest that you are the one ignoring the forest for the trees, but I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.

Have a great weekend.

 

[kckd]

Whether an illegal effort was undertaken to steal the election is in no way determined by whether that effort was ever in doubt or ultimately successful or not.

Regarding yesterday being as bad as J6, can you be specific in your view about what exactly makes it as bad? Are you saying Trump didn’t do what he was found guilty of or what he was found guilty of isn’t important?

Here is a summary of what Trump is accused of in the federal J6 indictment. AI alert.

The federal indictment against former President Donald Trump related to the January 6 Capitol insurrection includes four felony charges:

1. **Conspiracy to Defraud the United States**: This charge alleges that Trump and his co-conspirators plotted to obstruct and impede the lawful certification of the 2020 election results through deceitful means, including spreading false claims about election fraud.

2. **Conspiracy to Obstruct an Official Proceeding**: Trump is accused of conspiring to obstruct the certification of the Electoral College vote by Congress, including organizing fraudulent slates of electors and pressuring Vice President Mike Pence to reject legitimate electoral votes.

3. **Obstruction of and Attempt to Obstruct an Official Proceeding**: This charge is related to Trump's actions on January 6, where he allegedly sought to disrupt the joint session of Congress through the use of his supporters.

4. **Conspiracy Against Rights**: Trump is charged with conspiring to infringe on the voting and civil rights of Americans by attempting to overturn the election results through unlawful means.

The indictment outlines various actions taken by Trump and his associates, including making false statements, pressuring state officials, and misleading his supporters to believe that the election could be overturned by Pence. The indictment also details the alleged coordination with six unnamed co-conspirators and various overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy [oai_citation:1,Trump charged in Jan. 6 probe: Read the indictment and summary of the 4 felony counts](https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-read-the-indictment-january-6-capitol-probe-223432349.html) [oai_citation:2,Trump indicted in federal Jan. 6 investigation: Full coverage](https://www.yahoo.com/news/live-updates-trump-indicted-january-6-capitol-department-of-justice-jack-smith-213515864.html) [oai_citation:3,
Trump Jan. 6 Indictment: The Statutes | Lawfare
](https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/trump-jan.-6-indictment-the-statutes).

Here is a summary of the fake elector indictments in MI.

The Michigan fake elector scheme involves 16 Republicans who allegedly attempted to overturn the 2020 election results by falsely claiming to be the state's official electors for Donald Trump. Despite Joe Biden winning Michigan by over 154,000 votes, these individuals signed documents asserting that Trump had won the state's electoral votes.

The defendants, including prominent figures like former Michigan GOP co-chair Meshawn Maddock and grassroots organizer Marian Sheridan, face eight felony charges each. These charges include conspiracy to commit forgery, election law forgery, and uttering and publishing false documents. Some of these charges carry a maximum sentence of 14 years in prison [oai_citation:1,Michigan ‘fake electors’ head back in court: What to know | Bridge Michigan](https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-fake-electors-head-back-court-what-know) [oai_citation:2,Attorney General: Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel Charges 16 ‘False Electors’ with Election Law and Forgery Felonies](https://www.michigan.gov/ag/news/press-releases/2023/07/18/michigan-attorney-general-dana-nessel-charges-16-false-electors) [oai_citation:3,Michigan AG Charges 16 People for Roles in 2020 Fake Elector Scheme – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/07/michigan-fake-elector-2020-election-indictment-donald-trump/).

The case hinges on whether the defendants knowingly engaged in fraudulent activities to undermine the election results. While some defendants claim they were unaware of the implications of their actions, others assert they were preparing an alternate slate of electors in case the courts overturned the election results. Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel argues that their actions compromised the integrity of the election process and warrant prosecution [oai_citation:4,Michigan ‘fake electors’ head back in court: What to know | Bridge Michigan](https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-fake-electors-head-back-court-what-know) [oai_citation:5,Nine fake electors arraigned in Michigan: What to know about the case | Bridge Michigan](https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/nine-fake-electors-arraigned-michigan-what-know-about-case).

The legal proceedings are ongoing, with preliminary examinations scheduled to determine if the cases will proceed to trial [oai_citation:6,Michigan AG Charges 16 People for Roles in 2020 Fake Elector Scheme – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/07/michigan-fake-elector-2020-election-indictment-donald-trump/) [oai_citation:7,Nine fake electors arraigned in Michigan: What to know about the case | Bridge Michigan](https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/nine-fake-electors-arraigned-michigan-what-know-about-case).

Here is a summary of the fake elector indictments in AZ:

The Arizona fake elector scheme resulted in the indictment of 18 individuals, including high-profile Trump allies and Arizona Republican officials. These indictments stem from their attempt to falsely certify that Donald Trump won Arizona's electoral votes in the 2020 presidential election, despite Joe Biden's victory in the state.

The key charges against the defendants include conspiracy, fraud, and forgery. Specifically, they are accused of submitting fraudulent documents to Congress and the National Archives, falsely claiming to be the state's legitimate electors for Trump. The indictment highlights efforts to subvert the election results through these unlawful actions.

Prominent figures among the indicted include:
- **Rudy Giuliani**: Trump's personal attorney, known for his prominent role in challenging the 2020 election results.
- **Kelli Ward**: Former chair of the Arizona Republican Party.
- **John Eastman**: Attorney who drafted legal strategies for overturning the election.
- **Christina Bobb**: Attorney and Republican National Committee official.
- **Boris Epshteyn**: Trump campaign aide.
- **Jake Hoffman**: Arizona state senator.
- **Anthony Kern**: Arizona state senator.

These individuals, along with others involved, face serious legal consequences for their roles in the scheme, including multiple felony counts that could result in significant prison sentences if convicted [oai_citation:1,Arizona prosecution of fake electors - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_prosecution_of_fake_electors) [oai_citation:2,Who are the 18 indicted co-conspirators in the Arizona fake electors’ scheme?](https://www.yahoo.com/news/18-indicted-co-conspirators-arizona-005611793.html).

Here is a summary of the indictments in GA:

The case against Donald Trump in Georgia involves a detailed indictment alleging a coordinated effort to overturn the 2020 election results in the state. Key aspects of the indictment include:

1. **Racketeering (RICO Act)**: Trump and 18 co-defendants are accused of participating in a criminal enterprise to overturn the election.
2. **Conspiracy Charges**: Multiple counts of conspiracy to commit forgery, make false statements, and file false documents.
3. **Specific Actions**: The indictment details efforts to pressure state officials, make false claims about election fraud, and organize fake electors to present to Congress.
4. **Co-defendants**: Notable figures include Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, and John Eastman.

These charges reflect a broad and organized effort to undermine the legitimate election results in Georgia, involving both direct actions and coordination with various individuals.

For more detailed information, you can read the full indictment summary [here](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Georgia-indictment-of-Donald-Trump-2229377) [oai_citation:1,Georgia indictment of Donald Trump | Charges, Co-defendants, & Other Indictments | Britannica](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Georgia-indictment-of-Donald-Trump-2229377).

Several of Trump's lawyers have pleaded guilty to crimes related to their roles in the efforts to overturn the 2020 election results:

1. **Sidney Powell**: Pleaded guilty to six misdemeanor counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference with performance of election duties in Georgia.
2. **Jenna Ellis**: Pleaded guilty to a felony count of aiding and abetting false statements and writings in the Georgia case.
3. **Kenneth Chesebro**: Pleaded guilty to a felony count of conspiracy to commit filing false documents in Georgia.

These pleas are part of ongoing investigations into attempts to overturn the 2020 election results.

Several of Trump's lawyers face possible disbarment due to their involvement in efforts to overturn the 2020 election results:

1. **Rudy Giuliani**: Faces disciplinary proceedings in New York and Washington D.C. for making false statements about election fraud.
2. **Sidney Powell**: Faces disbarment in Texas for filing baseless lawsuits and making false claims about the election.
3. **John Eastman**: Faces disbarment in California for his role in drafting legal strategies to overturn the election results.

These proceedings are ongoing and could result in the loss of their legal licenses.

Deep State!!! ;-)

 

[atlanta cock#]

An effort by a sitting POTUS to ignore the will of the electorate and disrupt the peaceful transfer of power is about as forest as it gets for a representative republic, which is no longer a representative republic as soon as that happens.

I respectfully suggest that you are the one ignoring the forest for the trees, but I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.

Have a great weekend.

You still haven't shown me where Trump is still in office and Biden wasn't timely sworn in.

 

[willdup]

You still haven't shown me where Trump is still in office and Biden wasn't timely sworn in.

Crimes are not solely determined by the outcome of the action. Trump is not accused of stealing the election, he’s accused of attempting to steal the election, which is also illegal as documented in the multitude of felony indictments I shared.

If you hire a hitman to kill your spouse, but the hitman turns out to be undercover law enforcement, your spouse survives and you go to jail for conspiracy to commit murder. This isn’t a complicated concept.

 

[ToddBburn]

An effort by a sitting POTUS to ignore the will of the electorate and disrupt the peaceful transfer of power is about as forest as it gets for a representative republic, which is no longer a representative republic as soon as that happens.

I respectfully suggest that you are the one ignoring the forest for the trees, but I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.

Have a great weekend.

I hope you have a great weekend as well. I saying both sides standing and pointing to Trump and the other side standing pointing at being loose with prosecution of said crimes and the outright determination to seek to destroy their opponent is the problem. Both feed the other to do more harm to our our nation.
You keep focusing on only one side of the equation. We are all biased and I believe we all see some things clearly and have blind spots to others.
One thing I am confident in is neither side is totally right and without blame.
When you do something it is sometimes more important to consider how the process should be done versus totally trying to accomplish the end goal. I think both sides are inflicting harm and delivering messages that can not be heard by the other because of the vitriol the are delivered with.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Just read moderate news coverage to even some liberal coverage and they are even pointing out the unusual circumstances that were applied in this case. They have proclaimed if it were anyone but Trump, it would not even have been a case.

New Yorker magazine of all places calling out the

Crimes are not solely determined by the outcome of the action. Trump is not accused of stealing the election, he’s accused of attempting to steal the election, which is also illegal as documented in the multitude of felony indictments I shared.

If you hire a hitman to kill your spouse, but the hitman turns out to be undercover law enforcement, your spouse survives and you go to jail for conspiracy to commit murder. This isn’t a complicated concept.

kind of like when you set up a web of LLC’s and a communication process that allows for plausible deniability when your family makes tens of millions from your perceived influence as VP?

 

[willdup]

New Yorker magazine of all places calling out the

kind of like when you set up a web of LLC’s and a communication process that allows for plausible deniability when your family makes tens of millions from your perceived influence as VP?

No, not like that at all and I’m surprised you would make such a weak comparison.

Rudy Giuliani came into possession of Hunter’s laptop in 2019 and the FBI had it shortly after. Most investigations never receive such a gift of supposed incriminating evidence. The House committee began their investigation and hearings nineteen months ago and have gotten direct testimony from all of the players including Hunter Biden. They’ve had bank records and plenty of other supposed evidence.

What do they have to show for it? Red herring after red herring that not only gets discredited, but embarrassingly discredited.

As I’ve said over and over again, let’s get the impeachment going. Bring the evidence and put it in front of the American people and see what happens. The only reason that hasn’t happened is because Comer knows he has no case.