Why doesn’t Trump say this?

[TivoliDawg]

He claims that the tariffs on Canadian goods are due to illegal immigration and drug smuggling coming across the border. But we all know that doesn’t make any sense. That would make sense for the southern border, where almost all illegal aliens and almost all drugs come through. But the Canadian border is responsible for less than 1% of illegal aliens, and less than 1% of illegal drugs.

Essentially, we provide national security for the country of Canada and have since its inception. That is what we should be charging for. Their national security and national sovereignty should not come cheaply.

They sell us goods at market rate and we need a steep discount which we don’t get.

 

[55dawg]

He claims that the tariffs on Canadian goods are due to illegal immigration and drug smuggling coming across the border. But we all know that doesn’t make any sense. That would make sense for the southern border, where almost all illegal aliens and almost all drugs come through. But the Canadian border is responsible for less than 1% of illegal aliens, and less than 1% of illegal drugs.

Essentially, we provide national security for the country of Canada and have since its inception. That is what we should be charging for. Their national security and national sovereignty should not come cheaply.

They sell us goods at market rate and we need a steep discount which we don’t get.

He did mention that and other issues along the way. Seems to be easier to just mention immigration and fentyl as the catch all … For better or worse, Don’t think hes too concerned with the messaging.

 

[JackRussellDawg]

He claims that the tariffs on Canadian goods are due to illegal immigration and drug smuggling coming across the border. But we all know that doesn’t make any sense. That would make sense for the southern border, where almost all illegal aliens and almost all drugs come through. But the Canadian border is responsible for less than 1% of illegal aliens, and less than 1% of illegal drugs.

Essentially, we provide national security for the country of Canada and have since its inception. That is what we should be charging for. Their national security and national sovereignty should not come cheaply.

They sell us goods at market rate and we need a steep discount which we don’t get.

There is a lot of illegal drug activity going on along the US Canadian border back and forth. Attached is a sampling of January drug arrests by Canadian police. The suspects arrested in the large seizure of fentanyl last week said they were traveling to Regina, which is just north of the US border.

Officers seize eight kilograms – potentially millions of doses – of fentanyl during traffic stop | Royal Canadian Mounted Police

 

[ThreeDawgNight]

He claims that the tariffs on Canadian goods are due to illegal immigration and drug smuggling coming across the border. But we all know that doesn’t make any sense. That would make sense for the southern border, where almost all illegal aliens and almost all drugs come through. But the Canadian border is responsible for less than 1% of illegal aliens, and less than 1% of illegal drugs.

Essentially, we provide national security for the country of Canada and have since its inception. That is what we should be charging for. Their national security and national sovereignty should not come cheaply.

They sell us goods at market rate and we need a steep discount which we don’t get.

1% of 'seized' illegal drugs.....more than 1% in overall drugs coming across the border.

I'm also pissed at the losers here in the US consuming the drugs. I have no sympathy whatsoever for those folks.

 

[TivoliDawg]

There is a lot of illegal drug activity going on along the US Canadian border back and forth. Attached is a sampling of January drug arrests by Canadian police. The suspects arrested in the large seizure of fentanyl last week said they were traveling to Regina, which is just north of the US border.

Officers seize eight kilograms – potentially millions of doses – of fentanyl during traffic stop | Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Right. Didn’t say there were no drugs, just vast majority comes through southern border statistically.

 

[TivoliDawg]

He did mention that and other issues along the way. Seems to be easier to just mention immigration and fentyl as the catch all For better or worse, Don’t think hes too concerned with the messaging.

It’s the same principal with NATO. These countries are stealing from us. If Russia invaded them they’d be begging us for their lives.

Western Europe is not paying market rate for these protection services.

 

[willdup]

He claims that the tariffs on Canadian goods are due to illegal immigration and drug smuggling coming across the border. But we all know that doesn’t make any sense. That would make sense for the southern border, where almost all illegal aliens and almost all drugs come through. But the Canadian border is responsible for less than 1% of illegal aliens, and less than 1% of illegal drugs.

Essentially, we provide national security for the country of Canada and have since its inception. That is what we should be charging for. Their national security and national sovereignty should not come cheaply.

They sell us goods at market rate and we need a steep discount which we don’t get.

You are one of the more rational posters on here and I'm always interested to hear your take on issues.

Having said that, I think you are looking at this issue the wrong way. A free and prosperous world is good for the largest economy in the world, full stop. This is a fundamental principle that Trump and the America First crowd seem to fail to understand or account for.

Its why pre-WW2 isolationism was a failed policy and why we invested many billions of dollars in rebuilding the German and Japanese economies via the Marshall Plan immediately after having bombed them to dust during the war. Those investments returned many times the initial investment and played a direct role in the post-WW2 world order that led to a prolonged period of relative global peace and ultimately defeated Soviet Russia.

It's also why soft power agencies like USAID play an important role in serving the interest of the US, while also helping those in need. To be clear, our number one global adversary, China, is spreading billions around the globe via infrastructure projects and humanitarian aid and they aren't doing it out of a sense of charity. They are doing that to position themselves as the go-to partner when it's time to exploit the resources available in that country. @-lowcountrydawg, you have referenced in other threads our desire to "be popular". What you are actually talking about is the exercise of this kind of soft power, which is definitely more subtle and nuanced that traditional threats and hard power. Perhaps that's why Trump either doesn't understand or doesn't value soft power.

Back to Canada, yes, they enjoy the benefit of being allied with the US and thus the benefit of the largest and most powerful military the world has ever known. But we get quite a lot out of that relationship as well.

1. Economic Integration

• Largest trade partnership globally
• $2 trillion in annual bilateral trade
• Deeply interconnected supply chains
• Shared economic regulations and standards

1. National Security

• Longest undefended border worldwide
• Cooperative military and defense agreements
• Shared intelligence and counterterrorism efforts
• NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) joint operations

1. Strategic Geopolitical Alignment

• Shared democratic values
• Consistent diplomatic cooperation
• Mutual support in international organizations
• Similar approaches to global challenges

1. Energy Cooperation

• Integrated energy markets
• Canada is a major U.S. energy supplier
• Shared infrastructure for oil, gas, and electricity
• Collaborative renewable energy development

1. Cultural and Social Ties

• Extensive people-to-people exchanges
• Similar cultural backgrounds
• Shared language (English predominantly)
• High levels of cross-border migration and tourism

We aren't running a protection racket. We provide a security umbrella for Canada because it is very clearly in our national best interests. Is there always an opportunity for improvement? Of course. Both countries are always attempting to negotiate in their own self-interest. That goes without saying. Part of what is brilliant about the relationship is that the self interest of both countries, both economically and militarily, are so closely and naturally aligned.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

You are one of the more rational posters on here and I'm always interested to hear your take on issues.

Having said that, I think you are looking at this issue the wrong way. A free and prosperous world is good for the largest economy in the world, full stop. This is a fundamental principle that Trump and the America First crowd seem to fail to understand or account for.

Its why pre-WW2 isolationism was a failed policy and why we invested many billions of dollars in rebuilding the German and Japanese economies via the Marshall Plan immediately after having bombed them to dust during the war. Those investments returned many times the initial investment and played a direct role in the post-WW2 world order that led to a prolonged period of relative global peace and ultimately defeated Soviet Russia.

It's also why soft power agencies like USAID play an important role in serving the interest of the US, while also helping those in need. To be clear, our number one global adversary, China, is spreading billions around the globe via infrastructure projects and humanitarian aid and they aren't doing it out of a sense of charity. They are doing that to position themselves as the go-to partner when it's time to exploit the resources available in that country. @-lowcountrydawg, you have referenced in other threads our desire to "be popular". What you are actually talking about is the exercise of this kind of soft power, which is definitely more subtle and nuanced that traditional threats and hard power. Perhaps that's why Trump either doesn't understand or doesn't value soft power.

Back to Canada, yes, they enjoy the benefit of being allied with the US and thus the benefit of the largest and most powerful military the world has ever known. But we get quite a lot out of that relationship as well.

1. Economic Integration

• Largest trade partnership globally
• $2 trillion in annual bilateral trade
• Deeply interconnected supply chains
• Shared economic regulations and standards

1. National Security

• Longest undefended border worldwide
• Cooperative military and defense agreements
• Shared intelligence and counterterrorism efforts
• NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) joint operations

1. Strategic Geopolitical Alignment

• Shared democratic values
• Consistent diplomatic cooperation
• Mutual support in international organizations
• Similar approaches to global challenges

1. Energy Cooperation

• Integrated energy markets
• Canada is a major U.S. energy supplier
• Shared infrastructure for oil, gas, and electricity
• Collaborative renewable energy development

1. Cultural and Social Ties

• Extensive people-to-people exchanges
• Similar cultural backgrounds
• Shared language (English predominantly)
• High levels of cross-border migration and tourism

We aren't running a protection racket. We provide a security umbrella for Canada because it is very clearly in our national best interests. Is there always an opportunity for improvement? Of course. Both countries are always attempting to negotiate in their own self-interest. That goes without saying. Part of what is brilliant about the relationship is that the self interest of both countries, both economically and militarily, are so closely and naturally aligned.

I don't totally dismiss your point. I think where we differ is in the fact that, notwithstanding the more aggressive tone / messaging, the majority of "soft power" you mention remains in place. Like most things with Trump, the legit criticism ends up falling solely in the category of "things he said" or "this is what could possibly happen."

He was in power already. Did we leave Nato? Did we abandon our role in providing humanitarian aid (legitimate aid)? His words and tactics serve a purpose. He takes it on the chin from an image standpoint globally in a way that Biden / Obama would never, but it does in fact lead to better deals for America without sacrificing the soft power you mention. Important trade continued, with better terms for the US. And most importantly, he is a deterrent for the worst kind of behavior from the worst actors. His unpredictability is effective in that regard as well....and very intentional.

 

[The Original SLC Dawg]

He claims that the tariffs on Canadian goods are due to illegal immigration and drug smuggling coming across the border. But we all know that doesn’t make any sense. That would make sense for the southern border, where almost all illegal aliens and almost all drugs come through. But the Canadian border is responsible for less than 1% of illegal aliens, and less than 1% of illegal drugs.

Essentially, we provide national security for the country of Canada and have since its inception. That is what we should be charging for. Their national security and national sovereignty should not come cheaply.

They sell us goods at market rate and we need a steep discount which we don’t get.

When the Mexican border closes, think hard, where will the drugs enter the country? Hint: it’s over 4000 miles long.

 

[55dawg]

You are one of the more rational posters on here and I'm always interested to hear your take on issues.

Having said that, I think you are looking at this issue the wrong way. A free and prosperous world is good for the largest economy in the world, full stop. This is a fundamental principle that Trump and the America First crowd seem to fail to understand or account for.

Its why pre-WW2 isolationism was a failed policy and why we invested many billions of dollars in rebuilding the German and Japanese economies via the Marshall Plan immediately after having bombed them to dust during the war. Those investments returned many times the initial investment and played a direct role in the post-WW2 world order that led to a prolonged period of relative global peace and ultimately defeated Soviet Russia.

It's also why soft power agencies like USAID play an important role in serving the interest of the US, while also helping those in need. To be clear, our number one global adversary, China, is spreading billions around the globe via infrastructure projects and humanitarian aid and they aren't doing it out of a sense of charity. They are doing that to position themselves as the go-to partner when it's time to exploit the resources available in that country. @-lowcountrydawg, you have referenced in other threads our desire to "be popular". What you are actually talking about is the exercise of this kind of soft power, which is definitely more subtle and nuanced that traditional threats and hard power. Perhaps that's why Trump either doesn't understand or doesn't value soft power.

Back to Canada, yes, they enjoy the benefit of being allied with the US and thus the benefit of the largest and most powerful military the world has ever known. But we get quite a lot out of that relationship as well.

1. Economic Integration

• Largest trade partnership globally
• $2 trillion in annual bilateral trade
• Deeply interconnected supply chains
• Shared economic regulations and standards

1. National Security

• Longest undefended border worldwide
• Cooperative military and defense agreements
• Shared intelligence and counterterrorism efforts
• NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) joint operations

1. Strategic Geopolitical Alignment

• Shared democratic values
• Consistent diplomatic cooperation
• Mutual support in international organizations
• Similar approaches to global challenges

1. Energy Cooperation

• Integrated energy markets
• Canada is a major U.S. energy supplier
• Shared infrastructure for oil, gas, and electricity
• Collaborative renewable energy development

1. Cultural and Social Ties

• Extensive people-to-people exchanges
• Similar cultural backgrounds
• Shared language (English predominantly)
• High levels of cross-border migration and tourism

We aren't running a protection racket. We provide a security umbrella for Canada because it is very clearly in our national best interests. Is there always an opportunity for improvement? Of course. Both countries are always attempting to negotiate in their own self-interest. That goes without saying. Part of what is brilliant about the relationship is that the self interest of both countries, both economically and militarily, are so closely and naturally aligned.

I too appreciate Tivoli’s takes. Not that I always agree, but he’s clearly open minded does not just pick sides.

 

[LRA Dawg]

He uses the immigration justification because he knows that is what his core supporters want to hear. It's amusing to see how many of them suddenly seem to think fentanyl trafficking is a huge problem from Canada now that Trump has made those statements.

Behind the scenes a lot of other discussions are going on that he does not want to make public. I do believe he is smart enough to know if the negotiations lead to inflation, that is not the outcome he wants. The real negotiations are now, not in the past 72 hours. He won't let you know the negotiation points until its over and he can make himself look good by highlighting what he gained.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

He uses the immigration justification because he knows that is what his core supporters want to hear. It's amusing to see how many of them suddenly seem to think fentanyl trafficking is a huge problem from Canada now that Trump has made those statements, ludicrous as it is.

Behind the scenes a lot of other discussions are going on that he does not want to make public. I do believe he is smart enough to know if the negotiations lead to inflation, that is not the outcome he wants. The real negotiations are now, not in the past 72 hours. He won't let you know the negotiation points until its over and he can make himself look good by highlighting what he gained.

Correct. And to the benefit of Americans.

 

[TivoliDawg]

When the Mexican border closes, think hard, where will the drugs enter the country? Hint: it’s over 4000 miles long.

I really don’t think the southern border is ever going to be closed, unfortunately. But regardless of what happens in the future, that has nothing to do with Trump stated reason for putting tariffs on Canadian goods today.

 

[TivoliDawg]

You are one of the more rational posters on here and I'm always interested to hear your take on issues.

Having said that, I think you are looking at this issue the wrong way. A free and prosperous world is good for the largest economy in the world, full stop. This is a fundamental principle that Trump and the America First crowd seem to fail to understand or account for.

Its why pre-WW2 isolationism was a failed policy and why we invested many billions of dollars in rebuilding the German and Japanese economies via the Marshall Plan immediately after having bombed them to dust during the war. Those investments returned many times the initial investment and played a direct role in the post-WW2 world order that led to a prolonged period of relative global peace and ultimately defeated Soviet Russia.

It's also why soft power agencies like USAID play an important role in serving the interest of the US, while also helping those in need. To be clear, our number one global adversary, China, is spreading billions around the globe via infrastructure projects and humanitarian aid and they aren't doing it out of a sense of charity. They are doing that to position themselves as the go-to partner when it's time to exploit the resources available in that country. @-lowcountrydawg, you have referenced in other threads our desire to "be popular". What you are actually talking about is the exercise of this kind of soft power, which is definitely more subtle and nuanced that traditional threats and hard power. Perhaps that's why Trump either doesn't understand or doesn't value soft power.

Back to Canada, yes, they enjoy the benefit of being allied with the US and thus the benefit of the largest and most powerful military the world has ever known. But we get quite a lot out of that relationship as well.

1. Economic Integration

• Largest trade partnership globally
• $2 trillion in annual bilateral trade
• Deeply interconnected supply chains
• Shared economic regulations and standards

1. National Security

• Longest undefended border worldwide
• Cooperative military and defense agreements
• Shared intelligence and counterterrorism efforts
• NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) joint operations

1. Strategic Geopolitical Alignment

• Shared democratic values
• Consistent diplomatic cooperation
• Mutual support in international organizations
• Similar approaches to global challenges

1. Energy Cooperation

• Integrated energy markets
• Canada is a major U.S. energy supplier
• Shared infrastructure for oil, gas, and electricity
• Collaborative renewable energy development

1. Cultural and Social Ties

• Extensive people-to-people exchanges
• Similar cultural backgrounds
• Shared language (English predominantly)
• High levels of cross-border migration and tourism

We aren't running a protection racket. We provide a security umbrella for Canada because it is very clearly in our national best interests. Is there always an opportunity for improvement? Of course. Both countries are always attempting to negotiate in their own self-interest. That goes without saying. Part of what is brilliant about the relationship is that the self interest of both countries, both economically and militarily, are so closely and naturally aligned.

Fair points.

However, Canada has socialized healthcare as does most of Western Europe. These are relatively new phenomenon.

All the money they could/should be spending to build up their own military to protect themselves, they stopped spending several decades ago, when they knew the United States would come to the rescue. It’s not like these people don’t have the wherewithal to have their own navies, own armies, etc. They are simply buying votes with largesse.

I definitely am not trying to impoverished another nation, but they need to tighten up their belts and tighten them up fast.

 

[willdup]

Fair points.

However, Canada has socialized healthcare as does most of Western Europe. These are relatively new phenomenon.

All the money they could/should be spending to build up their own military to protect themselves, they stopped spending several decades ago, when they knew the United States would come to the rescue. It’s not like these people don’t have the wherewithal to have their own navies, own armies, etc. They are simply buying votes with largesse.

I definitely am not trying to impoverished another nation, but they need to tighten up their belts and tighten them up fast.

Some interesting numbers regarding healthcare for you to consider.

Last year we spent 16.6% of GDP on healthcare.

Canada spent 12.2%.

So, while Canada does spend less on defense as a percentage of GDP than the US (which puts them is the same group as the rest of the world), universal healthcare has nothing to do with that fact.

 

[atlanta cock#]

Some interesting numbers regarding healthcare for you to consider.

Last year we spent 16.6% of GDP on healthcare.

Canada spent 12.2%.

So, while Canada does spend less on defense as a percentage of GDP than the US (which puts them is the same group as the rest of the world), universal healthcare has nothing to do with that fact.

We pay for the R&D.

Man, listening to the TDS Marxists is like Trump listening to this lady.

 

[ugaboz]

He claims that the tariffs on Canadian goods are due to illegal immigration and drug smuggling coming across the border. But we all know that doesn’t make any sense. That would make sense for the southern border, where almost all illegal aliens and almost all drugs come through. But the Canadian border is responsible for less than 1% of illegal aliens, and less than 1% of illegal drugs.

Essentially, we provide national security for the country of Canada and have since its inception. That is what we should be charging for. Their national security and national sovereignty should not come cheaply.

They sell us goods at market rate and we need a steep discount which we don’t get.

trump could say the perfect thing and you still would complain lol
its all good

 

[davidmtim]

He only has the power to institute tariffs without Congress by using the the International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977 (IEEPA). To use IEEPA, he has to declare a 'state of emergency'. The state of emergency he declared was the threat caused by current influx of illegal aliens and drugs. It would be hard to declare a state of emergency that Canada is not paying their fair share for defense. So, it's a way of working around Congress.

 

[Georgia Knight]

trump could say the perfect thing and you still would complain lol
its all good

In his defense, Tivoli has praised Trump about as much as he criticizes. I think we have very different views on the root of our problems, but he's not a TDS-er by any means.