“Espionage”???…..
- Thread starter Eastmandawg
- Start date
Ironically, and full circle, it’s what Hillary did minus the destruction of docs
I spent years in the counter intelligence world. The former POTUS is likely being investigated for espionage because the DOJ has some sort of evidence that he intended to share the highly classified documents with foreign contacts.
My understanding based on what I have read is that it does not necessarily mean that he showed anything to anyone or misused them - other than to have them and not protect them particularly well, which we know via the warrant.
The espionage act is broad. Doesn't necessarily mean he was selling secrets to Saudis or whatever. But these are the sort of secrets that are normally viewed in a SCIF, which we all know too much about from back in the day.
The only tea leaves I have seen to suggest that it is more than that: they already took a bunch of footage from security cameras at Mar-A-Lago. Outside of that, anyone saying anything is guessing, for instance CNN apparently saying that they are fingerprinting the documents to see who has seen them. I will wait on that thanks.
I stand by my theory that if all he did was have them, he won't be charged. If there's more to the story, who knows?
Actually very different.
I’m no fan of Clinton but she did not physically take highly classified documents out of the White House. She stored classified conversations on her private server which weren’t at the TS-SCI level or higher.
45 took physical files that were highly classified out of the White House. He clearly knew what the docs were since he refused to turn over the docs when the DOJ & NARA originally asked for the docs back in June.
my question is- why did he refuse to turn it over?
Two VERY different circumstances.
based on your experience, could it be as simple as "having" the documents outside of NA secured custody and the fact that he hadn't given them back over the course of negotiations AND he has foreign contacts who we don't want to see those things (Saudis). i.e. could you have probable cause without knowledge of intent?
Bravo. This is why waiting for more information (and seeking actual truth) is important instead of jumping to conclusions. Let's see where this goes.
They had to permit him to take the docs, no? They’ve apparently had discussions about the docs times before.
Why would they wait 20 months to retrieve top secret docs in this manner?
And a hard copy would be more secure than a file on an improperly unsecured server. Right? Where retrieval would be eons easier.
Possibly. From my experience FBI/DOJ wouldn’t go this far unless they have solid evidence of his intent.
Plus- FBI provided him every courtesy as the former President. The fact that they went in during a week day when Mara-lago isn’t busy instead of the weekend after the warrant was approved in plain clothes so the public wouldn’t notice says a lot about how careful the FBI/DOJ was about this.
there’s been a lot of media comments about the DOJ/FBI being political but most folks I know that work there are top tier professionals and the best at what they do.
Ya see, the FBI, CIA, YMCA, and UN were spying on Trump. Basically anyone with initials. Trump was spying on them spying on him. They were spying on him spying on them. This makes Trump guilty.
Not necessarily. The Trump team is now coming out and saying that 45 declassified these docs before he left which means they knew what they were taking. However, the President can’t just wave a wand and declassify a document- there’s an entire legal process and it sounds like 45 never went through the legal process.
important reminder about information above the TS-level: the main reason we have the classification system is not actually to protect the information itself but to protect how we procured that information- the source/process. Which is why it’s so important to go through a strict process to declassify docs/info.
In reference to your last comment about the server:
The emails on the Clinton server were actually classified conversations between government officials. It’s my understanding that it didn’t go above the TS level.
The files that 45 had were actualy TSI-SCINintelligence on foreign allies and adversaries (specifically the intelligence file on the President of France) and some files related to our nuclear capability (don’t know exactly what though)
Two very different tiers of information.
It doesn’t matter if you lean right or left politically- We all should be very concerned as Americans that this incident occurred.
Remember- if any intelligence professional did this, theyd likely be charged with treason and heavy prison time.
So IYO would you be surprised if this turns out to ultimately be a doc retrieval?
They also collected every gov’t document from his entire presidency. Which catches the eye.
I would be very surprised if this turns out to be a doc retrieval case.
I don’t think the FBI/DOJ would’ve executed the warrant in the current political climate had they not had rock solid evidence that there’s intent for something else.
from my perspective- why would 45 be so defensive and go on a social media rant if it’s just a document retrieval situation? Usually when the suspect is going out of their way to be defensive- they’re usually guilty but that’s just from my personal experience
Ranting and confrontational is exactly what you’d expect from DT. No concept of anything else
Marmot, Here is my question, if they came a few months ago, and looked at the stuff and took some stuff and told him to put an extra lock on the door which he did, why did they wait several more months and then raid with the fbi? If they were welcomed in and given a bunch of boxes of stuff previously. If they wanted something else couldn't they have just asked for it? That makes me lean toward this being more about making a political statement than anything else. As far as Trump planning some something with another country, that is pretty laughable. Trump was way tougher on other countries than the past and current dim presidents. obuma spent his time apologizing for America overseas where as Trump was America first. obuma was caught on a hot mic telling a russian he could be more flexible after he was re-elected, obuma bowed down to many foreign leaders. Something Trump never did. Trump also never sent pallets of cash to Iran. So, I hope if he did something that was BAD, they prove it, But if he did no more with documents than killary, obuma, george w, etc. that garland and wrey are booted.
Here is another one for you. This to me is more of the double standard in the fbi/doj. Wrey calling pubs despicable and deplorable for going after the fbi yet refuses to do anything about the folks stalking/doxing the supreme court justices at their homes. An actual despicable and unlawful act. What dim spin you put on that?
If its just document retrieval, why wouldn't they just ask for it like they did in Jan and if he refused this time then subpoena it, then if he refused you have a reason maybe to go in hot. This is politically motivated. It's plain to see. If he felt he had something to hide why would he be out their begging them to unseal and reveal everything? Doesn't seem like someone guilty at all to me.
edit: No nuclear files found.. lol. Just another fishing expedition by dims trying to get Trump... just like the last 6 yrs.
If this is true- he should post the standing order document on truth social
This is truly funny: "The very fact that these documents were present at Mar-a-Lago means they couldn’t have been classified," the former president's office stated."
45’s team also said this morning that it’s plausible the FBI/DOJ planted these docs during the raid.
I’m confused- so did 45 issue a standing order declassifying the docs or did he not have them and the feds planted them?
45’s team is contradicting themselves
I’m confused- so did 45 issue a standing order declassifying the docs or did he not have them and the feds planted them?
45’s team is contradicting themselves
Also, "he was just taking his work home with him" doesn't really scan when he was... leaving the job.
T
The multiple FISA warrant falsifications caused me to lose all trust in that organization. Hard to believe nobody did time for that malfeasance.
The multiple FISA warrant falsifications caused me to lose all trust in that organization. Hard to believe nobody did time for that malfeasance.
And the Bobb lawyer saying “we don’t really know what’s in those boxes”. The story changes every few hours.
Interesting that Jim Comey disagrees.
Here he is on the day he declared that Hillery failed to protect top secret information, but “no reasonable” prosecutor would bring charges.
Complete BS and anyone who spends a little
time digging knows it.
“From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time;”
The Trump team first mentioned planting Tuesday. No specifics were given and this was long before the leak that they were searching for nuclear related docs.
Trump did declassify documents before leaving the WH and they have not been released to the public yet. Perhaps these are the documents his team says are declassified.
No contradictions at all unless you're saying Trump raided himself and made the whole thing up.
TS and TS-SCI are different classifications!
I admit I don’t know all the details of the Clinton case (will read up on it in the morning) but if I’m not mistaken, she turned over all the servers once the DOJ, Congress and State Dept IG requested them right?
Trump declassified what documents? What hasn’t been released to the public? If you’re talking about a standing order by his office to declassify docs- there would be a paper trail at the WH AND the agency the intelligence came from. I’m fairly certain DOJ would’ve checked with the agency about the standing order. Also- if he really did declassify docs through SO like he’s now saying- post the document with the specific file names redacted. I’m skeptical because the 45 team has a history of broad accusations but no proof to back it up (especially under oath).
I do believe that 45 is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law but he and his teams actions this week don’t seem like someone who has nothing to hide.
I’m still trying to understand why he didn’t just turn over the docs back in June when the FBI CI director went in person to meet with him and asked him to turn them over? We could have avoided all of this…
this is also not what an innocent man does…
These FBI agents were doing their job/duty as law enforcement and now they’re likely getting death threats because the former POTUS published their info.
You just gave 4 liberals a happy finish.
I’d release their names too because it will soon become clear that many of the FBI agents and officials who were involved in the raid on Trump's home work in the same CounterIntelligence Division of the FBI that investigated Trump in the Russiagate hoax and are actively under criminal investigation by Special Counsel John Durham for potentially abusing their power investigating Trump in the Russian fraud.
I’m aware. Some of Hillery’s emails were actually TS-SAP.
Yes I understand that. And some of Hillery’s were actually TS-SAP.
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Why is he claiming he declassified if it was planted by the FBI?
Regrding the Russian hoax, did Trump’s campaign manager admit to sharing private data with Russian agents?
Did Trump publicly request that Russia hack his opponents emails and did they do it?
Did Roger Stone request the release of those hacked emails the day the p**sygrab tape went public and did they in fact release those hacked emails that same day?
Tht doesn’t sound like a fraud or a hoax to me and if Obama or Biden did any of that you’d be marching on Washington demanding justice.
Regarding this week’s news, it’s good to be reminded yet again that there is literally nothing Trump could do to lose support from his hardcore base. The guy has zero character and this has been known for decades but as long as he keeps owning the libs you will defend him.
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