ADVERTISEMENT

NonDawg Active shooter at Appalachee High School

What IYO does it mean that guns “no longer be readily available to the masses”?
Meaning that serious red tape is put around the sale of new guns & the government finds programs or loopholes to take some guns away from citizens who already own them (like some kind of forced buy back system).

The former would be a lot easier to implement than the latter. Or that the govt progressively makes it harder & harder for gun shops to operate
 
Again I'm very 2A but I do acknowledge shootings will continue until guns become a lot harder for the average suicidal homicidal Joe to get their hands on.
 
Again I'm very 2A but I do acknowledge shootings will continue until guns become a lot harder for the average suicidal homicidal Joe to get their hands on.

Yeah, color me a skeptic on that point. Pro 2A goes out the window when you desire a "forced buyback program."

What more "serious red tape" are you in favor of implementing for the purchase of a firearm? I'm genuinely curious and I'm not trying to nitpick. I think it's a discussion that could be had, I just don't really know where the firearm restriction camp is coming from on this.
 
And yet it’s still not an impossibility that it may have happened because there are so many holes in our system with regard to the gym trade. How about we start with repealing any law that allows the purchase or possession of any firearm without a license and the completion of a safety certification course? Thoughts and prayers aren’t doing s**t to prevent these tragedies and it’s time people admit that more action is required.

That's a fair point. How would you approach the millions of gun owners who already have them? Would you require licensing for those, and a safety course as well?
 
Yeah, color me a skeptic on that point. Pro 2A goes out the window when you desire a "forced buyback program."

What more "serious red tape" are you in favor of implementing for the purchase of a firearm? I'm genuinely curious and I'm not trying to nitpick. I think it's a discussion that could be had, I just don't really know where the firearm restriction camp is coming from on this.
I don't desire anything of the sort. I desire a world where every law abiding American can easily acquire a gun & also a world where mass shootings in schools, malls, or festivals don't keep happening but those 2 worlds can never coexist.

To your second paragraph, again I don't desire anything of the sort. But the government has made it harder to buy weapons & will continue to do so in the coming years & decades.
 
And yet it’s still not an impossibility that it may have happened because there are so many holes in our system with regard to the gym trade. How about we start with repealing any law that allows the purchase or possession of any firearm without a license and the completion of a safety certification course? Thoughts and prayers aren’t doing s**t to prevent these tragedies and it’s time people admit that more action is required.

Nobody is claiming that “thoughts and prayers” are preventing anything.

I’m not a fan of ambiguous “more action” just for the sake of doing something. Would closing the so-called “gun show loophole” have prevented yesterday from happening? Would the shooter’s father, having passed a safety course, have prevented yesterday?

As I said above, I just don’t think that we can legislate our way out of this issue. If this was as simple as passing some additional laws, it would have done already.

If Covid taught, or should have taught, anything to us, it’s that snap-finger, emotionally fueled regulations probably won’t solve the problem, and that there are some issues that, by their inherent nature, simply cannot be solved with the stroke of a pen.

Multiple, existing laws were broken by the shooter yesterday. Even if the vague “common sense gun laws” could have applied in some way yesterday, they would only be effective if followed.
 
And yet it’s still not an impossibility that it may have happened because there are so many holes in our system with regard to the gym trade. How about we start with repealing any law that allows the purchase or possession of any firearm without a license and the completion of a safety certification course? Thoughts and prayers aren’t doing s**t to prevent these tragedies and it’s time people admit that more action is required.
Explain to all of us how your suggestion would have prevented this.
 
Nobody is claiming that “thoughts and prayers” are preventing anything.

I’m not a fan of ambiguous “more action” just for the sake of doing something. Would closing the so-called “gun show loophole” have prevented yesterday from happening? Would the shooter’s father, having passed a safety course, have prevented yesterday?

As I said above, I just don’t think that we can legislate our way out of this issue. If this was as simple as passing some additional laws, it would have done already.

If Covid taught, or should have taught, anything to us, it’s that snap-finger, emotionally fueled regulations probably won’t solve the problem, and that there are some issues that, by their inherent nature, simply cannot be solved with the stroke of a pen.

Multiple, existing laws were broken by the shooter yesterday. Even if the vague “common sense gun laws” could have applied in some way yesterday, they would only be effective if followed.
Very well put. It's unfortunately true that "you can't legislate morality". At this point, holding the parents responsible would be a start. We have multiple guns in our house. All have a trigger lock and I have the key on my key ring. It's not hard and just a smart thing to do. The guns are also locked in a gun safe.
JC
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheRedRain
Again I'm very 2A but I do acknowledge shootings will continue until guns become a lot harder for the average suicidal homicidal Joe to get their hands on.

Given that this shooter was on the FBI's radar since last year and nothing of significance was done to prevent him from acting yesterday (both law enforcement and parents are to blame for not taking action, not sure if the school was even aware), what "harder" method of obtaining guns would have prevented this tragedy?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirty Hairy Dawg
I don't desire anything of the sort. I desire a world where every law abiding American can easily acquire a gun & also a world where mass shootings in schools, malls, or festivals don't keep happening but those 2 worlds can never coexist.

To your second paragraph, again I don't desire anything of the sort. But the government has made it harder to buy weapons & will continue to do so in the coming years & decades.
Well, it existed 50 years ago, so maybe the guns aren't the issue. Maybe something else has changed over time that is contributed to this issue.
Government will always try to infringe on your rights, hence the need for the Bill of rights. But in the last few years, courts are ruling over and over again to overturn these onerous laws. Bruen and Heller decisions being the most recent, but many decisions from circuit courts are also listing restrictions.

Let's also look at some of the research. Harvard research showed that the Clinton "assault weapons" ban did nothing to reduce crime. Supporting that is a just released study from Duke that shows the same.
https://abc11.com/post/children-gun...s have ranked,of harming themselves or others.
 
Very well put. It's unfortunately true that "you can't legislate morality". At this point, holding the parents responsible would be a start. We have multiple guns in our house. All have a trigger lock and I have the key on my key ring. It's not hard and just a smart thing to do. The guns are also locked in a gun safe.
JC
Don't fool yourself into a false sense of security, a determined teenager can get access to those guns. If they have decided to murder people, they don't care if they damage your safe or gun locks getting to them. Do you lock your liquor cabinet and assume your kid can't get in there?

The bigger danger may be someone kicking in your door and shooting you while you are trying to remember where you keys are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: seatonsdawgs
Given that this shooter was on the FBI's radar since last year and nothing of significance was done to prevent him from acting yesterday (both law enforcement and parents are to blame for not taking action, not sure if the school was even aware), what "harder" method of obtaining guns would have prevented this tragedy?
My gut reaction...Lock Dad up for life. You had the FBI on your doorstep with major concerns and you still allowed your son access to this type of gun..then you go to prison too.
 
My gut reaction...Lock Dad up for life. You had the FBI on your doorstep with major concerns and you still allowed your son access to this type of gun..then you go to prison too.
Has it been determined for sure the firearm belonged to his dad? I'm assuming it was but have seen nothing concrete about the weapon or how it ended up in the kid's possession. But I do agree that the owner of the gun should be held responsible if they were neglectful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dawg 'n IT
My gut reaction...Lock Dad up for life. You had the FBI on your doorstep with major concerns and you still allowed your son access to this type of gun..then you go to prison too.

I’m sure that at least the father will be charged. Will obviously be very specific. If I were him, right after I hire a lawyer for Colt, I’m hiring a different one for myself.

I really want to know how Colt got to school that morning. I wouldn’t think he could fit that gun into his book bag. How did he carry into school and why did the case (assuming it was in a case) not prompt any questions from anyone. He’s 14, so if he drove himself, how did he get access to a vehicle? If someone drove him to school, I’m sure the police are going to have lots of questions for that person regarding everything that Colt had with him and why more questions were not asked at that point.

Lots of unknowns, but I’m sure his will not be the only criminal charge to arise from all of this
 
My gut reaction...Lock Dad up for life. You had the FBI on your doorstep with major concerns and you still allowed your son access to this type of gun..then you go to prison too.

Well, there are a lot of questions to be answered before we get there.
Did the FBI leave having "major" concerns? Why did they leave? What did they do going forward if anything?
Did the parents seek mental healthcare for their son? What did the mental healthcare worker advise or prescribe?
After all of that, we don't know that the father didn't have this rifle secured in some way.


422f6359-58e5-4377-8d78-9869302c664d_text.gif
 
Has it been determined for sure the firearm belonged to his dad? I'm assuming it was but have seen nothing concrete about the weapon or how it ended up in the kid's possession. But I do agree that the owner of the gun should be held responsible if they were neglectful.


Unbelievable. Inexcusable. He bought him the gun for Christmas after the FBI responded to his son’s threats.
 
Nobody is claiming that “thoughts and prayers” are preventing anything.

I’m not a fan of ambiguous “more action” just for the sake of doing something. Would closing the so-called “gun show loophole” have prevented yesterday from happening? Would the shooter’s father, having passed a safety course, have prevented yesterday?

As I said above, I just don’t think that we can legislate our way out of this issue. If this was as simple as passing some additional laws, it would have done already.

If Covid taught, or should have taught, anything to us, it’s that snap-finger, emotionally fueled regulations probably won’t solve the problem, and that there are some issues that, by their inherent nature, simply cannot be solved with the stroke of a pen.

Multiple, existing laws were broken by the shooter yesterday. Even if the vague “common sense gun laws” could have applied in some way yesterday, they would only be effective if followed.
And yet no one seems to be getting the message. The people that claim it’s all related to the (very real) mental health crisis in the country don’t want to put their mouth is. Remove high-capacity guns from the equation. Period. Throw the book at negligent parents. Period. Fund school programs that screen for and provide support to troubled teens. Period. Vote to remove legislators that refuse to do anything but post vacuous tweets in the aftermath of these events. Period.
 
I was wondering that too. Could be that charges are enhanced when a minor is involved. Someone just suggested that to me and it makes sense
Murder seems like a bit of a reach to me, but I guess the overcharge on things like this to strengthen their base before a jury? You certainly know far more about that than I would I’m sure.
 
And yet no one seems to be getting the message. The people that claim it’s all related to the (very real) mental health crisis in the country don’t want to put their mouth is. Remove high-capacity guns from the equation. Period. Throw the book at negligent parents. Period. Fund school programs that screen for and provide support to troubled teens. Period. Vote to remove legislators that refuse to do anything but post vacuous tweets in the aftermath of these events. Period.
What counts as a “high capacity gun” in your opinion?
 
Why only two counts of second degree murder?
In Georgia, second-degree murder is defined as causing the death of another person while committing second-degree child cruelty. This means that if someone abuses a child in any way that results in their death, regardless of intent, they have committed second-degree murder.

-Per Google AI

Here's the actual law.

 
the dad bought his 14 year old an AR after he was investigated for threats?!
 
And yet no one seems to be getting the message. The people that claim it’s all related to the (very real) mental health crisis in the country don’t want to put their mouth is. Remove high-capacity guns from the equation. Period. Throw the book at negligent parents. Period. Fund school programs that screen for and provide support to troubled teens. Period. Vote to remove legislators that refuse to do anything but post vacuous tweets in the aftermath of these events. Period.

Ok, but again, if this were as simple as acting on a bunch of declarative statements, it would have been done already.

It’s easy to say “remove high capacity guns from the equation” - but what does that mean? And how do you do that?

Parents are getting “the book” thrown at them. Taking the story on Colin Gray as truth, he went and bought that AR-15 for Colt AFTER the cops came and talked to both about threats Colt had allegedly made about shooting up a school. I’m skeptical that the prospect of future criminal prosecution would have deterred a person who excises that level of judgment.

I’ll be the first to agree that our legislators tend to say a bunch of meaningless things that aren’t actionable. But here, I don’t think that there is an actionable plan.

I am not trying to be difficult. If there is a way to solve this, I’m all for it. But I have yet to hear a solution that would prevented yesterday from happening. But I have heard a lot of things that would prevent otherwise law abiding people from owning guns that will never be used for anything close to a criminal purpose
 
I am not trying to be difficult. If there is a way to solve this, I’m all for it. But I have yet to hear a solution that would prevented yesterday from happening. But I have heard a lot of things that would prevent otherwise law abiding people from owning guns that will never be used for anything close to a criminal purpose

I appreciate the discussion here

My point is when you say “I have yet to hear a solution that would have prevented yesterday”

But we don’t know that, right? Maybe making those style of guns more difficult to attain for civilians would be a deterrent?

What if mandatory gun safety measures (the legislature considered a bill that gave people a tax break for voluntarily buying a gun safe and it got zero traction) would have limited access for this kid?

I don’t pretend to know what will and won’t work - but surely we should try?
 
Guns can be worthy gifts but given the circumstances here, yes he's f___d
Technically you’re not supposed to buy guns for people, if you wanna pay them in advance for them that’s usually fine but gifting guns is considered a straw purchase and can lead to you getting into deep sh*t. It’s supposed yo ensure the person who will actually own the guns has a background check.
 
Technically you’re not supposed to buy guns for people, if you wanna pay them in advance for them that’s usually fine but gifting guns is considered a straw purchase and can lead to you getting into deep sh*t. It’s supposed yo ensure the person who will actually own the guns has a background check.
Fair. I received a heirloom rifle for Christmas one year & my ex wife got a custom rifle for Christmas one year too. Guarantee it happens way more than most realize
 
  • Like
Reactions: Krowking123
I appreciate the discussion here

My point is when you say “I have yet to hear a solution that would have prevented yesterday”

But we don’t know that, right? Maybe making those style of guns more difficult to attain for civilians would be a deterrent?

What if mandatory gun safety measures (the legislature considered a bill that gave people a tax break for voluntarily buying a gun safe and it got zero traction) would have limited access for this kid?

I don’t pretend to know what will and won’t work - but surely we should try?

I think those are worthwhile ideas. The gun safe idea is good.

I’m not trying to be difficult when I say this, but considering the judgment exercised by the father, I’m not optimistic that any of those things make a difference. Here’s a guy who (allegedly) bought this gun for this kid after the cops had come and talked to both… same question I posed above. Does a mandatory safety test do anything here, with that guy?

I read that there have been over 15 million AR-15 type rifles sold in this country. Not that this makes anyone feel better, but statistically, virtually none are used in mass shootings. But the real issue is that so many are out there now that “making it more difficult to attain” probably isn’t realistic. You can make it tougher at the retail level, but that’s a lot potentially available in the secondary market.

I don’t know. I don’t have a good answer and don’t mean to poo-poo so many of the ideas here. I just hate the overall idea of “doing something” just for the sake of doing it. There are legitimate constitutional issues at play here, and those can’t be disregarded either
 
I think those are worthwhile ideas. The gun safe idea is good.

I’m not trying to be difficult when I say this, but considering the judgment exercised by the father, I’m not optimistic that any of those things make a difference. Here’s a guy who (allegedly) bought this gun for this kid after the cops had come and talked to both… same question I posed above. Does a mandatory safety test do anything here, with that guy?

I read that there have been over 15 million AR-15 type rifles sold in this country. Not that this makes anyone feel better, but statistically, virtually none are used in mass shootings. But the real issue is that so many are out there now that “making it more difficult to attain” probably isn’t realistic. You can make it tougher at the retail level, but that’s a lot potentially available in the secondary market.

I don’t know. I don’t have a good answer and don’t mean to poo-poo so many of the ideas here. I just hate the overall idea of “doing something” just for the sake of doing it. There are legitimate constitutional issues at play here, and those can’t be disregarded either
we're in total agreement on that dad, I just cannot fathom what led him to make that decision

I don't think we should ever make policy just for the sake of making policy and there are most definitely rights issues at play, but I can't help but think that we have to do something.

And I can't imagine what all these families are going through, makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it
 
Fair. I received a heirloom rifle for Christmas one year & my ex wife got a custom rifle for Christmas one year too. Guarantee it happens way more than most realize
Heirlooms are usually fine, if you wanna be safe I believe you can just do a bill of sale to show where ownership has been passed along and you should be fine (at least here in GA). You’re just not supposed to go to the place of business and buy the gun for another person that’s where you get in trouble.
 
Technically you’re not supposed to buy guns for people, if you wanna pay them in advance for them that’s usually fine but gifting guns is considered a straw purchase and can lead to you getting into deep sh*t. It’s supposed yo ensure the person who will actually own the guns has a background check.
No, that is not a straw purchase. It is perfectly legal to buy/gift a gun to someone as long as you don’t have reason to believe they are prohibited person.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT