Biden “lock him up!”……

[Lava-Man]

No, I won't "agree to disagree" about J6. Why would I do that? Over 1424 have been charged with crimes related to J6. 330 people have either pled guilty or been found guilty of felonies in trial. The vast majority have said that concerns about election fraud and the election being stolen from Trump were a primary factor leading to their crimes.

Trump to this day is praising J6 (in the last week he referred to it as a "day of love") and continues to promise to pardon the "heroes and patriots" who participated.

So no, that doesn't come off the table. Given the fact that we have never had a similar occurrence previously, it's the historically defining event of the Trump presidency.

Beyond that, many of the reasons to believe Trump will act as an authoritarian are either based on his own words or already well documented in this thread. Nothing to be gained by repeating them again as even if you have been living under (or are) a rock, you are quite familiar with them at this point.


"Expressing concern for nouveaux Covid-era rules" is not what Trump was doing at all, which I have to assume you know.

He claimed he had proof of fraud, he claimed he won in a landslide, his team (including Fox News, News Max and others) made outrageous claims about voting machines. He made an entire series of claims that were unproven at the time and remain unproven four years later and after many millions of dollars were spent to try and find supporting evidence.

There is a reason Trump's election fraud legal team has been disbarred or had their law license suspended, pled guilty to crimes, including felonies, and in the case of Rudy, is about to turn over all of his assets to two innocent poll workers who were subject to death threats based on the lies.

I'm going to withdraw at this point because having the same argument over the same facts is truly exhausting. Both of the questions that I responded to above have been so well covered, so well documented, that doing it again serves no point.

As I said above, it's a choice to believe Donald Trump over John Kelly, Mike Pence and the long list of others who worked directly for him. Trump has been a low character person, in every aspect both personal and professional, his entire life. You simply can't make the same claim of the large group of people warning us about what another Trump presidency may include. You just can't. Character used to count, and it counted more for conservatives than others. Those days are long gone.

You can't engage in a theoretical, academic discussion?

You also failed to provide any evidence, beyond J6. Thank you for making my point for me.

 

[Lava-Man]

*NOTED*

At what point do people start admitting this is just "second verse, same as the first!" and cries of "X Republican is HITLER" is simply the impotent fear of losing political power?

 

[ToddBburn]

No, I won't "agree to disagree" about J6. Why would I do that? Over 1424 have been charged with crimes related to J6. 330 people have either pled guilty or been found guilty of felonies in trial. The vast majority have said that concerns about election fraud and the election being stolen from Trump were a primary factor leading to their crimes.

Trump to this day is praising J6 (in the last week he referred to it as a "day of love") and continues to promise to pardon the "heroes and patriots" who participated.

So no, that doesn't come off the table. Given the fact that we have never had a similar occurrence previously, it's the historically defining event of the Trump presidency.

Beyond that, many of the reasons to believe Trump will act as an authoritarian are either based on his own words or already well documented in this thread. Nothing to be gained by repeating them again as even if you have been living under (or are) a rock, you are quite familiar with them at this point.


"Expressing concern for nouveaux Covid-era rules" is not what Trump was doing at all, which I have to assume you know.

He claimed he had proof of fraud, he claimed he won in a landslide, his team (including Fox News, News Max and others) made outrageous claims about voting machines. He made an entire series of claims that were unproven at the time and remain unproven four years later and after many millions of dollars were spent to try and find supporting evidence.

There is a reason Trump's election fraud legal team has been disbarred or had their law license suspended, pled guilty to crimes, including felonies, and in the case of Rudy, is about to turn over all of his assets to two innocent poll workers who were subject to death threats based on the lies.

I'm going to withdraw at this point because having the same argument over the same facts is truly exhausting. Both of the questions that I responded to above have been so well covered, so well documented, that doing it again serves no point.

As I said above, it's a choice to believe Donald Trump over John Kelly, Mike Pence and the long list of others who worked directly for him. Trump has been a low character person, in every aspect both personal and professional, his entire life. You simply can't make the same claim of the large group of people warning us about what another Trump presidency may include. You just can't. Character used to count, and it counted more for conservatives than others. Those days are long gone.

You act like character is bad only on the right with Trump. That is part of what I and so many do not understand at all. Kamala is not any better. Neither is Biden or Walz. I think that is the major problem with the left and their self righteous attitudes because they know better than the rest of us.

I have said before and I will say it again. If people could back up and try to view things with as little a bias as possible they might see things in a totally different light. This goes for both sides.

There are major flaws on both sides. But the lack of acknowledgement of the left to truly see their own flaws and hypocrisy is what is turning a good number of voters towards Trump.

The embracing and spewing of outright lies is now not just falling on deaf ears but swaying some independent voters to back Trump. The left lives by the mantra of the ends justify the means. I think most people are now seeing that the left says whatever needs to be said to win and they do it in a more polite way. Their actions do not mirror the message they preach.

Trump says things in a crude and brash way but his actions reflect a better message than his words and this is resonating more with a broader voter base.

The left has become so bitter that even if they say the right thing it is not received well and it is getting worse each day as the election nears.

I am truly amazed that this is where we stand now as nation. Deeply divided and vitriol and bitterness abound.
Sorry to ramble.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

You act like character is bad only on the right with Trump. That is part of what I and so many do not understand at all. Kamala is not any better. Neither is Biden or Walz. I think that is the major problem with the left and their self righteous attitudes because they know better than the rest of us.

I have said before and I will say it again. If people could back up and try to view things with as little a bias as possible they might see things in a totally different light. This goes for both sides.

There are major flaws on both sides. But the lack of acknowledgement of the left to truly see their own flaws and hypocrisy is what is turning a good number of voters towards Trump.

The embracing and spewing of outright lies is now not just falling on deaf ears but swaying some independent voters to back Trump. The left lives by the mantra of the ends justify the means. I think most people are now seeing that the left says whatever needs to be said to win and they do it in a more polite way. Their actions do not mirror the message they preach.

Trump says things in a crude and brash way but his actions reflect a better message than his words and this is resonating more with a broader voter base.

The left has become so bitter that even if they say the right thing it is not received well and it is getting worse each day as the election nears.

I am truly amazed that this is where we stand now as nation. Deeply divided and vitriol and bitterness abound.
Sorry to ramble.

Very well said on all.

 

[Athens is Heaven]

No, I won't "agree to disagree" about J6. Why would I do that? Over 1424 have been charged with crimes related to J6. 330 people have either pled guilty or been found guilty of felonies in trial. The vast majority have said that concerns about election fraud and the election being stolen from Trump were a primary factor leading to their crimes.

Trump to this day is praising J6 (in the last week he referred to it as a "day of love") and continues to promise to pardon the "heroes and patriots" who participated.

So no, that doesn't come off the table. Given the fact that we have never had a similar occurrence previously, it's the historically defining event of the Trump presidency.

Beyond that, many of the reasons to believe Trump will act as an authoritarian are either based on his own words or already well documented in this thread. Nothing to be gained by repeating them again as even if you have been living under (or are) a rock, you are quite familiar with them at this point.


"Expressing concern for nouveaux Covid-era rules" is not what Trump was doing at all, which I have to assume you know.

He claimed he had proof of fraud, he claimed he won in a landslide, his team (including Fox News, News Max and others) made outrageous claims about voting machines. He made an entire series of claims that were unproven at the time and remain unproven four years later and after many millions of dollars were spent to try and find supporting evidence.

There is a reason Trump's election fraud legal team has been disbarred or had their law license suspended, pled guilty to crimes, including felonies, and in the case of Rudy, is about to turn over all of his assets to two innocent poll workers who were subject to death threats based on the lies.

I'm going to withdraw at this point because having the same argument over the same facts is truly exhausting. Both of the questions that I responded to above have been so well covered, so well documented, that doing it again serves no point.

As I said above, it's a choice to believe Donald Trump over John Kelly, Mike Pence and the long list of others who worked directly for him. Trump has been a low character person, in every aspect both personal and professional, his entire life. You simply can't make the same claim of the large group of people warning us about what another Trump presidency may include. You just can't. Character used to count, and it counted more for conservatives than others. Those days are long gone.

You people talk about character counting and look what you are voting for my God what hypocrisy!

 

[Athens is Heaven]

You act like character is bad only on the right with Trump. That is part of what I and so many do not understand at all. Kamala is not any better. Neither is Biden or Walz. I think that is the major problem with the left and their self righteous attitudes because they know better than the rest of us.

I have said before and I will say it again. If people could back up and try to view things with as little a bias as possible they might see things in a totally different light. This goes for both sides.

There are major flaws on both sides. But the lack of acknowledgement of the left to truly see their own flaws and hypocrisy is what is turning a good number of voters towards Trump.

The embracing and spewing of outright lies is now not just falling on deaf ears but swaying some independent voters to back Trump. The left lives by the mantra of the ends justify the means. I think most people are now seeing that the left says whatever needs to be said to win and they do it in a more polite way. Their actions do not mirror the message they preach.

Trump says things in a crude and brash way but his actions reflect a better message than his words and this is resonating more with a broader voter base.

The left has become so bitter that even if they say the right thing it is not received well and it is getting worse each day as the election nears.

I am truly amazed that this is where we stand now as nation. Deeply divided and vitriol and bitterness abound.
Sorry to ramble.

If Trump wins this election you’re going to see what the left really is a group of radical anarchis. I think they’re going to be rioting and burning down cities and Trump will have no other alternative but to call out the police and NG to stop them and too protect the citizens.

 

[Lava-Man]

Harris falsely claimed the "American people" are losing confidence in the Supreme Court. Reality proves it's Democrats who continue to undermine decisions that don't fall in line with their political goals.



Harris also says she will eliminate the filibuster.

But Trump is the Fascist. The next Hitler.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

I agree, that’s just how Biden speaks. Kind of like when he told black voters “they’re going to put you back in chains”. He doesn’t mean it literally but is his way of over stating his position. Trump can’t get away with it, Dems can.

I could kind of go along with that if they weren't literally trying to lock Trump up. We now know MS Willis was determined to prosecute Trump before she was elected. We know Nathan Wade was meeting with Biden DOJ officials. We know the Biden DOJ #3 took a job in the NY DAs office that was going after Trump for an accounting dispute. We know Biden's DOJ raided Mar-a-Lago where docs were held in a building with SS security while it seems everyone that's ever stopped for a sandwich in DC had classified docs in their possession. When Biden says he wants Trump locked up, I don't think you can excuse it as simple campaign blustering.

 

[willdup]

You act like character is bad only on the right with Trump. That is part of what I and so many do not understand at all. Kamala is not any better. Neither is Biden or Walz. I think that is the major problem with the left and their self righteous attitudes because they know better than the rest of us.

I have said before and I will say it again. If people could back up and try to view things with as little a bias as possible they might see things in a totally different light. This goes for both sides.

There are major flaws on both sides. But the lack of acknowledgement of the left to truly see their own flaws and hypocrisy is what is turning a good number of voters towards Trump.

The embracing and spewing of outright lies is now not just falling on deaf ears but swaying some independent voters to back Trump. The left lives by the mantra of the ends justify the means. I think most people are now seeing that the left says whatever needs to be said to win and they do it in a more polite way. Their actions do not mirror the message they preach.

Trump says things in a crude and brash way but his actions reflect a better message than his words and this is resonating more with a broader voter base.

The left has become so bitter that even if they say the right thing it is not received well and it is getting worse each day as the election nears.

I am truly amazed that this is where we stand now as nation. Deeply divided and vitriol and bitterness abound.
Sorry to ramble.

Todd - you are a reasonable poster. It is noted and appreciated.

But "bothsides"ing Trump is, in my opinion, ignorant of history. Trump has been very effective at systematically lowering the perceived bar for what is considered politics as usual and what millions of people will now find acceptable when it would have been entirely disqualifying in the past with any other politician at any other point in our history. That lowering of standards, that intentional sowing of distrust and doubt in the foundations of our system of government, that idea that everyone else is lying and only one man can fix it is directly out of the authoritarian's playbook.

The list of what would have previously been disqualifying words and actions by Trump is far too long to recount, and at this point is known to everyone anyway. But you can't find me another president in our history whose own team, handpicked direct reports chosen to help a president achieve his agenda, who then spoke of their prior boss the way so many of Trump's former people speak of him.

Again, it's not politics as usual, it's entirely unprecedented in our history. They aren't saying they now disagree with his policies. They are saying he is an authoritarian who has no understanding of or respect for the Constitution. And the most confounding thing to me is the fact that what they are saying is entirely believable based on what trump has stated, in public, over and over again. You have heard it yourself, but somehow it gets explained away as political noise, when it most assuredly is not.

1. John Kelly (Former Chief of Staff & Marine General)

Praised Hitler:
Kelly said that Trump repeatedly stated that Hitler did "some good things".

Contempt For our Democracy:
Kelly stated that Trump "has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution and rule of law. God help us”

Unfit for Office:
John Kelly reportedly said that Trump is “the most flawed person” he’s ever known and believed that Trump was unfit for office.

Lack of Discipline:
Kelly criticized Trump for his lack of discipline and failure to focus on important matters, claiming Trump often made decisions based on personal grievances rather than national interest.

Undermining the Rule of Law:
Kelly was disturbed by Trump’s attempts to undermine the rule of law and his repeated attacks on institutions like the FBI, intelligence agencies, and the military.

Disrespecting Veterans:
According to reports, Kelly was deeply upset by Trump’s disrespectful remarks about military service members. Trump allegedly referred to American war dead as “losers” and “suckers” during a 2018 trip to France, where Trump declined to visit a cemetery for U.S. soldiers. Kelly, a retired Marine Corps general whose son was killed in action, reportedly found this behavior deeply offensive.

2. Mark Esper (Former Trump Secretary of Defense)

Fascist:
Esper said that Trump has "inclinations" towards "fascism".

Dangerous Decisions:
In his memoir “A Sacred Oath,” Esper called Trump a danger to democracy and revealed that Trump frequently suggested dangerous or illegal actions, such as shooting protesters, launching missiles at Mexico to "destroy the drug labs," and more.

Military for Political Purposes:
Esper opposed Trump’s desire to use the military for political purposes, especially in 2020 during the protests following George Floyd’s murder. Esper publicly opposed Trump’s plan to invoke the Insurrection Act to deploy the military against U.S. citizens protesting in American cities.

Leadership Failure:
Esper described Trump as erratic and unreliable when it came to critical defense decisions. He also noted that Trump did not take criticism well, even when it was meant to inform better decisions.

Ignoring Expert Advice:
Esper said that Trump often ignored the advice of top military and defense officials in favor of pursuing his instincts, which Esper believed were frequently reckless

3. Mark Milley (Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under Trump)

Facist:
Milley stated that "Trump is a fascist to the core".

Danger:
Milley stated that Trump was a 'The most dangerous person to this country.'

Fears of a Coup:
Milley reportedly feared that Trump might attempt to overturn the 2020 election results and remain in power illegally. According to reports, Milley took steps to ensure that the military would not be used to support any unconstitutional efforts to keep Trump in office, and he reportedly compared Trump's behavior to that of Hitler in the lead-up to the rise of Nazi Germany.

Concerns about Trump's Mental Stability:
Milley, according to some reports, was concerned about Trump’s mental stability in the final days of his presidency, particularly after the January 6 Capitol insurrection.

Politicizing the Military:
Milley strongly opposed Trump's efforts to politicize the military. He publicly apologized for participating in a photo op with Trump at Lafayette Square after peaceful protesters were cleared by law enforcement. Milley stated that his involvement in the event "created the perception of the military involved in domestic politics."

Undermining the Constitution:
Milley reportedly said Trump presented a real danger to the U.S. Constitution, and he worked with other officials to prevent any illegal or unconstitutional orders from being carried out in the final days of Trump’s presidency.

4. John Bolton (Former National Security Adviser)

Incompetence and Recklessness:
In his book “The Room Where It Happened,” Bolton portrayed Trump as incompetent, reckless, and unfit for office. He wrote that Trump often lacked a basic understanding of international issues and made decisions based on personal or political gain rather than national security."

Deals" with Dictators:
Bolton accused Trump of having authoritarian sympathies and trying to ingratiate himself with dictators, such as North Korea’s Kim Jong-un and Russia’s Vladimir Putin. Bolton revealed that Trump asked China’s President Xi Jinping for help with his re-election by purchasing U.S. agricultural products.

National Security Concerns:
Bolton described how Trump would repeatedly put personal interests above national security, including his handling of relationships with adversaries like China, North Korea, and Russia.

Misuse of Power:
Bolton claimed Trump attempted to use foreign policy for personal gain, particularly with Ukraine. Bolton said Trump tied aid to Ukraine to investigations into Joe Biden and his son Hunter, which was a key issue in Trump’s first impeachment.

Dereliction of Duty:
Bolton detailed how Trump’s decision-making process often reflected a lack of preparation, and that he was disinterested in detailed briefings, preferring to make decisions impulsively.

Donald Trump:- Said that he could "Terminate" "our Constitution".
Said he would be a dictator on day one.
Labeled the press "the enemy of the people".
Said he may go after his political opponents with the military.
Called Joe Biden the 'Enemy of the state'.
Said he admires Dictators
Oh and J.D. Vance: Trump is "America's Hitler".

 

[ToddBburn]

Todd - you are a reasonable poster. It is noted and appreciated.

But "bothsides"ing Trump is, in my opinion, ignorant of history. Trump has been very effective at systematically lowering the perceived bar for what is considered politics as usual and what millions of people will now find acceptable when it would have been entirely disqualifying in the past with any other politician at any other point in our history. That lowering of standards, that intentional sowing of distrust and doubt in the foundations of our system of government, that idea that everyone else is lying and only one man can fix it is directly out of the authoritarian's playbook.

The list of what would have previously been disqualifying words and actions by Trump is far too long to recount, and at this point is known to everyone anyway. But you can't find me another president in our history whose own team, handpicked direct reports chosen to help a president achieve his agenda, who then spoke of their prior boss the way so many of Trump's former people speak of him. Again, it's not politics as usual, it's entirely unprecedented in our history. They aren't saying they now disagree with his policy. They are saying he is an authoritarian who has no understanding of or respect for the Constitution. And the most confounding thing to me is the fact that what they are saying is entirely believable based on what trump has stated, in public, over and over again. You have heard it yourself, but somehow it gets explained away as political noise, when it most assuredly is not.

1. John Kelly (Former Chief of Staff & Marine General)

Praised Hitler:
Kelly said that Trump repeatedly stated that Hitler did "some good things".

Contempt For our Democracy:
Kelly stated that Trump "has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution and rule of law. God help us”

Unfit for Office:
John Kelly reportedly said that Trump is “the most flawed person” he’s ever known and believed that Trump was unfit for office.

Lack of Discipline:
Kelly criticized Trump for his lack of discipline and failure to focus on important matters, claiming Trump often made decisions based on personal grievances rather than national interest.

Undermining the Rule of Law:
Kelly was disturbed by Trump’s attempts to undermine the rule of law and his repeated attacks on institutions like the FBI, intelligence agencies, and the military.

Disrespecting Veterans:
According to reports, Kelly was deeply upset by Trump’s disrespectful remarks about military service members. Trump allegedly referred to American war dead as “losers” and “suckers” during a 2018 trip to France, where Trump declined to visit a cemetery for U.S. soldiers. Kelly, a retired Marine Corps general whose son was killed in action, reportedly found this behavior deeply offensive.

2. Mark Esper (Former Trump Secretary of Defense)

Fascist:
Esper said that Trump has "inclinations" towards "fascism".Dangerous Decisions: In his memoir “A Sacred Oath,” Esper called Trump a danger to democracy and revealed that Trump frequently suggested dangerous or illegal actions, such as shooting protesters, launching missiles at Mexico to "destroy the drug labs," and more.

Military for Political Purposes:
Esper opposed Trump’s desire to use the military for political purposes, especially in 2020 during the protests following George Floyd’s murder. Esper publicly opposed Trump’s plan to invoke the Insurrection Act to deploy the military against U.S. citizens protesting in American cities.

Leadership Failure:
Esper described Trump as erratic and unreliable when it came to critical defense decisions. He also noted that Trump did not take criticism well, even when it was meant to inform better decisions.Ignoring Expert Advice: Esper said that Trump often ignored the advice of top military and defense officials in favor of pursuing his instincts, which Esper believed were frequently reckless

3. Mark Milley (Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under Trump)

Facist:
Milley stated that "Trump is a fascist to the core".

Danger:
Milley stated that Trump was a 'The most dangerous person to this country.'

Fears of a Coup:
Milley reportedly feared that Trump might attempt to overturn the 2020 election results and remain in power illegally. According to reports, Milley took steps to ensure that the military would not be used to support any unconstitutional efforts to keep Trump in office, and he reportedly compared Trump's behavior to that of Hitler in the lead-up to the rise of Nazi Germany.

Concerns about Trump's Mental Stability:
Milley, according to some reports, was concerned about Trump’s mental stability in the final days of his presidency, particularly after the January 6 Capitol insurrection.

Politicizing the Military:
Milley strongly opposed Trump's efforts to politicize the military. He publicly apologized for participating in a photo op with Trump at Lafayette Square after peaceful protesters were cleared by law enforcement. Milley stated that his involvement in the event "created the perception of the military involved in domestic politics."

Undermining the Constitution:
Milley reportedly said Trump presented a real danger to the U.S. Constitution, and he worked with other officials to prevent any illegal or unconstitutional orders from being carried out in the final days of Trump’s presidency.

4. John Bolton (Former National Security Adviser)

Incompetence and Recklessness:
In his book “The Room Where It Happened,” Bolton portrayed Trump as incompetent, reckless, and unfit for office. He wrote that Trump often lacked a basic understanding of international issues and made decisions based on personal or political gain rather than national security."

Deals" with Dictators:
Bolton accused Trump of having authoritarian sympathies and trying to ingratiate himself with dictators, such as North Korea’s Kim Jong-un and Russia’s Vladimir Putin. Bolton revealed that Trump asked China’s President Xi Jinping for help with his re-election by purchasing U.S. agricultural products.

National Security Concerns:
Bolton described how Trump would repeatedly put personal interests above national security, including his handling of relationships with adversaries like China, North Korea, and Russia.

Misuse of Power:
Bolton claimed Trump attempted to use foreign policy for personal gain, particularly with Ukraine. Bolton said Trump tied aid to Ukraine to investigations into Joe Biden and his son Hunter, which was a key issue in Trump’s first impeachment.

Dereliction of Duty:
Bolton detailed how Trump’s decision-making process often reflected a lack of preparation, and that he was disinterested in detailed briefings, preferring to make decisions impulsively.

Donald Trump:- Said that he could "Terminate" "our Constitution".
Said he would be a dictator on day one.
Labeled the press "the enemy of the people".
Said he may go after his political opponents with the military.
Called Joe Biden the 'Enemy of the state'.
Said he admires Dictators
Oh and J.D. Vance: Trump is "America's Hitler".

I try to be reasonable. I know I have my biases and try to check them when I am reading or listening to posts/articles/podcasts. We all speak/type to quickly and thus we typically undermine our message.

I think and am confident there are just as many things that could be posted about Kamala as well. AI would not be much help because most of those applications have been slanted with a bias of their own. That is what most average Americans are fed up with the left/media trying to shape the narrative. There have been so many times they have made audacious claims and they were incorrect or out right lies and there would were no retractions or apologies for the mistake. I have seen very few Harris supporters even acknowledge or condemn these mistakes on this board.

I remember you mentioning propaganda in the past in several posts. I see more propaganda today and it seems more is coming from the left in an act of desperation. All the while they are eroding the democracy that they say they are trying to preserve. When you have such a strong faction in the Democratic electorate that thinks America its core is a racist, misogynist, and an abject failure it is no wonder we have 2 parties with such a great divide.

The left points out how bad Trump is all the while a good number of them are saying our country is as bad or worse. That is a message that most do not believe or want to hear. They might agree with some of what is said about Trump but to couple those same messages together is a losing proposition.

So many on the left align with stances/policies that they do not believe/agree with in order to oust Trump. That is sacrificing the war just to win a battle. It is short sided and a major miscalculation in my opinion.

The US is still the best country in the world. I think the lefts desire to punish Trump at all cost and to wage war against traditional values and truths have pushed the wedge much farther between the 2 parties. I am truly amazed how quickly this has happened. I am afraid it will take many years if ever to overcome this.

 

[Lava-Man]

1. John Kelly (Former Chief of Staff & Marine General)

Praised Hitler:
Kelly said that Trump repeatedly stated that Hitler did "some good things".

Contempt For our Democracy:
Kelly stated that Trump "has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution and rule of law. God help us”

Unfit for Office:
John Kelly reportedly said that Trump is “the most flawed person” he’s ever known and believed that Trump was unfit for office.

Lack of Discipline:
Kelly criticized Trump for his lack of discipline and failure to focus on important matters, claiming Trump often made decisions based on personal grievances rather than national interest.

Undermining the Rule of Law:
Kelly was disturbed by Trump’s attempts to undermine the rule of law and his repeated attacks on institutions like the FBI, intelligence agencies, and the military.

Disrespecting Veterans:
According to reports, Kelly was deeply upset by Trump’s disrespectful remarks about military service members. Trump allegedly referred to American war dead as “losers” and “suckers” during a 2018 trip to France, where Trump declined to visit a cemetery for U.S. soldiers. Kelly, a retired Marine Corps general whose son was killed in action, reportedly found this behavior deeply offensive.

Keith Kellogg, another retired General that worked closely with Trump. But, I guess he's lying and Kelly is the one we're supposed to believe?



The repeated attempts at appeals to authority that spectacularly blow up is the main reason all this falls on deaf ears:

 

[Lava-Man]

At what point do people start admitting this is just "second verse, same as the first!" and cries of "X Republican is HITLER" is simply the impotent fear of losing political power?

Yeah, it's definitely not the Left that's falling victim (again) to low-information and mindless followership.

 

[willdup]

I try to be reasonable. I know I have my biases and try to check them when I am reading or listening to posts/articles/podcasts. We all speak/type to quickly and thus we typically undermine our message.

I think and am confident there are just as many things that could be posted about Kamala as well. AI would not be much help because most of those applications have been slanted with a bias of their own. That is what most average Americans are fed up with the left/media trying to shape the narrative. There have been so many times they have made audacious claims and they were incorrect or out right lies and there would were no retractions or apologies for the mistake. I have seen very few Harris supporters even acknowledge or condemn these mistakes on this board.

I remember you mentioning propaganda in the past in several posts. I see more propaganda today and it seems more is coming from the left in an act of desperation. All the while they are eroding the democracy that they say they are trying to preserve. When you have such a strong faction in the Democratic electorate that thinks America its core is a racist, misogynist, and an abject failure it is no wonder we have 2 parties with such a great divide.

The left points out how bad Trump is all the while a good number of them are saying our country is as bad or worse. That is a message that most do not believe or want to hear. They might agree with some of what is said about Trump but to couple those same messages together is a losing proposition.

So many on the left align with stances/policies that they do not believe/agree with in order to oust Trump. That is sacrificing the war just to win a battle. It is short sided and a major miscalculation in my opinion.

The US is still the best country in the world. I think the lefts desire to punish Trump at all cost and to wage war against traditional values and truths have pushed the wedge much farther between the 2 parties. I am truly amazed how quickly this has happened. I am afraid it will take many years if ever to overcome this.

Speaking of propaganda, interesting to see the world’s richest man, who is also one of the largest US government contractors in the world, who also owns the most powerful social media channel for news and propaganda, and who is funding Trump’s campaign to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, has also been in contact with the authoritarian leader of one of our two chief global belligerents. This would be the same leader who has deployed Russian state resources to aid Trump’s efforts in 2016, 2020 and 2024.

From the WSJ.

 

[TCBDawg]

The four-star Marine, the gold star father who has dedicated his entire life to faithfully serving the Constitution, got his feelings hurt and decided to invent entirely out of whole cloth a long list of highly offensive comments from the former and possibly future president just out of spite? The same Trump who has openly stated admiration for authoritarian leaders and disdain for democratically elected allies? Do you guys even hear what you are saying on this topic?

I'd be willing to wager that there is no other scenario in your personal or professional lives where you, @-lowcountrydawg, @zingerdawg and most of the rest of those voting for Trump would ever believe someone with the known history of Trump over someone with the known history of Kelly. In fact, if you guys are actual conservatives versus MAGA republicans, you'd laugh at the idea of believing Trump and dismissing Kelly as a liar.

Trump fired Kelly. There is no way you can be educated and believe the BS these fired generals and liberal media are making up.

But I digress, Trump was secretly the United States dictator the last 4 years while he was playing golf a Mar a lago. “but but but if he is elected he will never leave power”

Good grief the ignorance