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NonDawg I admit I'm massively out of touch regardling Taylor Swift...

BaronVonHeinsteidel

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But then again, I'm just massively out of touch. I never thought that would happen. I go to plenty of shows. I'm a music appreciator, but there has been such a buffer between what I listen to and what the rest of the world seems to listen to for so long, that it's not even a matter of not liking it (which I admit I don't care for it), I just don't even understand how people listen to this stuff. Like, I isolated myself from the entire progression that led up to this point.

Now befrore you break your neck from nodding in agreement, it didn't happen the way you probably think it did. If you think you can relate to me to this point, you're probably wrong. I likely hated your music before you became a curmudgeon about today's music. I'm paying the price with compounding interest for being a record store prick in my youth. You probably met one in your youth in Atlanta or Athens.

At anyrate, I don't understand anyone's interest in anything that's bringing in Grammy gold, but I do recognize why Taylor (I think she's more savy than she is a great musician), Billie Eilish, Adele (who is admittedly just flat out talented) and a few others stand out, even though I'm not sure they would have stood out thirty years ago. Yeah. I think younger Millineals and Zoomers got the shit end of the stick. I hope it gets better for their sake. I'm not saying that, mean spirited. I do think disdain for modern music is partially due to people becoming ouldes and curmudgeons... but I also think modern pop, bro country, mumble rap, butt rock also happens to be shit-tier. And it's not completely the fault of the person who listens to this musical poop.

BTW, my morning listen while I made this rant. Virtually nobody liked this, even the music snobs.

 
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Music is having a renaissance and an added emphasis on real music created by instruments, real writing, real people. The problem is it doesn't fit the "radio" standard. Don't feel bad for the youth, they've got it better in terms of real music options than I did growing up(almost 34). In 5 years singer songwriters/folk/americana will be more mainstream than pop.
 
even though I'm not sure they would have stood out thirty years ago.
I disagree on this point as it relates to Swift given she's so involved in the writing process. Whether you like her songs or not, they're mostly well-written and speak to a massive audience. That audience would have been there in 1960, too.
 
But then again, I'm just massively out of touch. I never thought that would happen. I go to plenty of shows. I'm a music appreciator, but there has been such a buffer between what I listen to and what the rest of the world seems to listen to for so long, that it's not even a matter of not liking it (which I admit I don't care for it), I just don't even understand how people listen to this stuff. Like, I isolated myself from the entire progression that led up to this point.

Now befrore you break your neck from nodding in agreement, it didn't happen the way you probably think it did. If you think you can relate to me to this point, you're probably wrong. I likely hated your music before you became a curmudgeon about today's music. I'm paying the price with compounding interest for being a record store prick in my youth. You probably met one in your youth in Atlanta or Athens.

At anyrate, I don't understand anyone's interest in anything that's bringing in Grammy gold, but I do recognize why Taylor (I think she's more savy than a great musician), Billie Eilish, Adele (who is admittedly just flat out talented) and a few others stand out, even though I'm not sure they would have stood out thirty years ago. Yeah. I think younger Millineals and Zoomers got the shit end of the stick. I hope it gets better for their sake. I'm not saying that, mean spirited. I do think disdain for modern music is in partially due to people becoming ouldes and curmudgeons... but I also think modern pop, bro country, mumble rap, butt rock also happens to be shit-tier. And it's not completely the fault of the person who listens to this musical poop.

BTW, my morning listen while I made this rant. Virtually nobody liked this, even the music snobs.

I have no strong feelings about her music one way or the other. The recent music cowritten with Aaron and Bryce Dessner from The National was a bit of a change up for her, but I still wouldn’t add it to my rotation.

Interestingly, my twelve year old daughter, who plays the piano and is certainly in the perfect demo to be a swifty, shares my feelings on the subject.

Having said all that, I am greatly enjoying the degree to which she upsets a very vocal subset of the population.
 
But then again, I'm just massively out of touch. I never thought that would happen. I go to plenty of shows. I'm a music appreciator, but there has been such a buffer between what I listen to and what the rest of the world seems to listen to for so long, that it's not even a matter of not liking it (which I admit I don't care for it), I just don't even understand how people listen to this stuff. Like, I isolated myself from the entire progression that led up to this point.

Now befrore you break your neck from nodding in agreement, it didn't happen the way you probably think it did. If you think you can relate to me to this point, you're probably wrong. I likely hated your music before you became a curmudgeon about today's music. I'm paying the price with compounding interest for being a record store prick in my youth. You probably met one in your youth in Atlanta or Athens.

At anyrate, I don't understand anyone's interest in anything that's bringing in Grammy gold, but I do recognize why Taylor (I think she's more savy than a great musician), Billie Eilish, Adele (who is admittedly just flat out talented) and a few others stand out, even though I'm not sure they would have stood out thirty years ago. Yeah. I think younger Millineals and Zoomers got the shit end of the stick. I hope it gets better for their sake. I'm not saying that, mean spirited. I do think disdain for modern music is in partially due to people becoming ouldes and curmudgeons... but I also think modern pop, bro country, mumble rap, butt rock also happens to be shit-tier. And it's not completely the fault of the person who listens to this musical poop.

BTW, my morning listen while I made this rant. Virtually nobody liked this, even the music snobs.


Billie Eilish is not singer, she whispers everything. I have a wife, so I've listened to plenty of Taylor Swifts music... Which is 10000x better than 75% of the stuff kids listen these days.

Some of is just electric keyboard garbage with them singing. Like Drake, I'd rather gargle with gasoline than listen to him.
 
Music is having a renaissance and an added emphasis on real music created by instruments, real writing, real people. The problem is it doesn't fit the "radio" standard. Don't feel bad for the youth, they've got it better in terms of real music options than I did growing up(almost 34). In 5 years singer songwriters/folk/americana will be more mainstream than pop.
I see this happening as well..

Regarding Swift. I've never really been a fan, however I took my two daughters to see her last year. Ticket prices shocked me, but Ieft feeling like that was as good of a live event as I've ever been to. Incredible energy. I can't hate her.
 
In 5 years singer songwriters/folk/americana will be more mainstream than pop.
In 5 years, AI will probably be so advanced, that I think it will push creativity in of two directions.

A. People will lean into and even pretend they are creating music with the use of it.

B. I'm thinking at the very least, people who play instruments (in person) will at least be more novel and appreciated. HOWEVER, I have doubts about the increase in humans actually writing the songs they will playing, because nobody will actually know. Which means (imo) people will probably take more pleasure in listening to cover artists than before.
 
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A colleague sent this to me last week and I'm not sure anything has resonated more with me.

Drake is "shopping with an edge."

We listen to a lot of hip hop in my house, which my wife developed a fondness for when she graduated from UGA and moved to NY in ‘95. Mostly the older music, but we really like Anderson Paak and some of his peers.

Drake is boring, pretensious and uninspired. He’s the Eric Clapton of Hip Hop (ducks behind a stack of old albums).
 
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In 5 years, AI will probably be so advanced, that I think it will push creativity in of two directions.

A. People will lean into and even pretend they are creating music with the use of it.

B. I'm thinking at the very least, people who play instruments (in person) will at least be more novel and appreciated. HOWEVER, I have doubts about the increase in humans actually writing the songs they will playing, because nobody will actually know. Which means (imo) people will probably take more pleasure in listening to cover artists than before.
In terms of tours, we are trending in the direction where if you don't play real instruments, you're going to come in behind the acts that do. I full anticipate Zach Bryan's upcoming tour to create a craze in 2024. Music Festivals have gone from rave/rap fests to real instruments and music being way more popular. The creation of AI has helped separate the wheat from the chaff easier.
 
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I agre
But then again, I'm just massively out of touch. I never thought that would happen. I go to plenty of shows. I'm a music appreciator, but there has been such a buffer between what I listen to and what the rest of the world seems to listen to for so long, that it's not even a matter of not liking it (which I admit I don't care for it), I just don't even understand how people listen to this stuff. Like, I isolated myself from the entire progression that led up to this point.

Now befrore you break your neck from nodding in agreement, it didn't happen the way you probably think it did. If you think you can relate to me to this point, you're probably wrong. I likely hated your music before you became a curmudgeon about today's music. I'm paying the price with compounding interest for being a record store prick in my youth. You probably met one in your youth in Atlanta or Athens.

At anyrate, I don't understand anyone's interest in anything that's bringing in Grammy gold, but I do recognize why Taylor (I think she's more savy than a great musician), Billie Eilish, Adele (who is admittedly just flat out talented) and a few others stand out, even though I'm not sure they would have stood out thirty years ago. Yeah. I think younger Millineals and Zoomers got the shit end of the stick. I hope it gets better for their sake. I'm not saying that, mean spirited. I do think disdain for modern music is in partially due to people becoming ouldes and curmudgeons... but I also think modern pop, bro country, mumble rap, butt rock also happens to be shit-tier. And it's not completely the fault of the person who listens to this musical poop.

BTW, my morning listen while I made this rant. Virtually nobody liked this, even the music snobs.

i pretty much agree with you. In college it was the B52s, REM Phylon etc
after that music kind of died. I have always listened to the blues. Some of it is pretty good r&r.
 
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But then again, I'm just massively out of touch. I never thought that would happen. I go to plenty of shows. I'm a music appreciator, but there has been such a buffer between what I listen to and what the rest of the world seems to listen to for so long, that it's not even a matter of not liking it (which I admit I don't care for it), I just don't even understand how people listen to this stuff. Like, I isolated myself from the entire progression that led up to this point.

Now befrore you break your neck from nodding in agreement, it didn't happen the way you probably think it did. If you think you can relate to me to this point, you're probably wrong. I likely hated your music before you became a curmudgeon about today's music. I'm paying the price with compounding interest for being a record store prick in my youth. You probably met one in your youth in Atlanta or Athens.

At anyrate, I don't understand anyone's interest in anything that's bringing in Grammy gold, but I do recognize why Taylor (I think she's more savy than a great musician), Billie Eilish, Adele (who is admittedly just flat out talented) and a few others stand out, even though I'm not sure they would have stood out thirty years ago. Yeah. I think younger Millineals and Zoomers got the shit end of the stick. I hope it gets better for their sake. I'm not saying that, mean spirited. I do think disdain for modern music is in partially due to people becoming ouldes and curmudgeons... but I also think modern pop, bro country, mumble rap, butt rock also happens to be shit-tier. And it's not completely the fault of the person who listens to this musical poop.

BTW, my morning listen while I made this rant. Virtually nobody liked this, even the music snobs.

Taylor's lyrics and melodies are catchy. They are pretty easy to listen to and catchy enough to get stuck sometimes. Her latest tour (the show) was incredible.

Do I love and worship her? No.

Do I appreciate her talent and gift? Yes.

Both are true.
 
I think I would take that bet, but I do love me the singer/songwriter vibe.
I think @AgrayDAWG probably got out over his skis a touch with that statement. But he’s definitely right there is a HUGE market for that kind of real music. It’s why Childers, Isbell, Zach Bryan, Billy Strings and dudes like that are absolutely crushing it and selling out everywhere
 
I get the showmanship. I may not sing along but I see why the fans are so rabid. Universal themes well executed and delivered? Record sales will follow.
I 'get' it, I just sort of think her popularity is largely due to filling a vacuum. There is no doubt about her spell over 12 year old girls though.

I suppose what baffles me the most is that someone who seems so pedestrian by 80's and 90's standards, is occupying so much of the bandwidth today. She's arguably as big as Elvis or the Beatles ever were... or at least Michael Jackson or Madonna without any attribute that really stands out. Mind blowing... at least it is to me.
 
Taylor's lyrics and melodies are catchy. They are pretty easy to listen to and catchy enough to get stuck sometimes.
I know. So have hundreds of other people who've been on the radio. Every attribute she possesses, has been possessed by others in pop culture, but she's the billionaire.

I don't think her formula is anymore impressive than anyone elses. IDK. Seems like a combination of a perfect storm x avalanche⁹
 
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But then again, I'm just massively out of touch. I never thought that would happen. I go to plenty of shows. I'm a music appreciator, but there has been such a buffer between what I listen to and what the rest of the world seems to listen to for so long, that it's not even a matter of not liking it (which I admit I don't care for it), I just don't even understand how people listen to this stuff. Like, I isolated myself from the entire progression that led up to this point.

Now befrore you break your neck from nodding in agreement, it didn't happen the way you probably think it did. If you think you can relate to me to this point, you're probably wrong. I likely hated your music before you became a curmudgeon about today's music. I'm paying the price with compounding interest for being a record store prick in my youth. You probably met one in your youth in Atlanta or Athens.

At anyrate, I don't understand anyone's interest in anything that's bringing in Grammy gold, but I do recognize why Taylor (I think she's more savy than a great musician), Billie Eilish, Adele (who is admittedly just flat out talented) and a few others stand out, even though I'm not sure they would have stood out thirty years ago. Yeah. I think younger Millineals and Zoomers got the shit end of the stick. I hope it gets better for their sake. I'm not saying that, mean spirited. I do think disdain for modern music is in partially due to people becoming ouldes and curmudgeons... but I also think modern pop, bro country, mumble rap, butt rock also happens to be shit-tier. And it's not completely the fault of the person who listens to this musical poop.

BTW, my morning listen while I made this rant. Virtually nobody liked this, even the music snobs.

How far mainstream radio country and hip hop has fallen is almost unbelievable. Soulless, talentless garbage in most cases. Boy did Common call it or what with hip hop... (Before anybody loses their minds, I love 80s, 90s, early 2000s hip hop)
 
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I think @AgrayDAWG probably got out over his skis a touch with that statement. But he’s definitely right there is a HUGE market for that kind of real music. It’s why Childers, Isbell, Zach Bryan, Billy Strings and dudes like that are absolutely crushing it and selling out everywhere
Isbell has benefited greatly from the craze. Turnpike is finally getting their due, etc. It's why Oliver Anthony was a hit overnight. People aren't thirsty for AI created nonsense, they relate to real music.

(no part of this is me being combative) Remember about a year ago when I said ZB would be the biggest thing in country music when we look back in 20 years and I was over my skis then? He's surpassed every other "country" artist and all but caught Wallen and let's be honest, his music is going to translate for the next 20 and Morgan is just the current poster child for pop country radio...

Dude is in the Taylor Swift/Ed Sheeran league and separate from the rest in his genre.
 
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Billie Eilish is not singer, she whispers everything. I have a wife, so I've listened to plenty of Taylor Swifts music... Which is 10000x better than 75% of the stuff kids listen these days.

Some of is just electric keyboard garbage with them singing. Like Drake, I'd rather gargle with gasoline than listen to him.
Billie is actually an incredible vocalist. Maybe you haven't listened to a lot of her stuff, which is understandable, but her range and talent is some of the best in the business today.
 
I know. So have hundreds of other people who've been on the radio. Every attribute she possesses, has been possessed by others in pop culture, but she's the billionaire.

I don't think her formula is anymore impressive. IDK. Seems like a combination of a perfect storm and avalanche.
She's in a league of her own because she's the best songwriter to do her genre. She writes her own stuff and makes her own arrangements. Same reason Miranda Lambert holds steady for female country singers. When you can write your own music you're not waiting around on the label, you bring a shit ton to the table and they can make hit albums like clockwork.
 
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I don't know enough about her to make a judgement call on the quality of her product. She could be complete garbage. I just know she allegedly writes her own music, which is why I mentioned her.


watch a little bit of this and you can get a feel for her actual vocal talent. some of her stuff is admittedly weird and you cannot really tell how talented or not she is.
 
I grew up in Athens and my music view is dominated by that mindset. However, I have daughters who are industrial engineers and live in Texas and North Carolina. They flew around the country last year and attended a couple Swift shows and enjoyed the experience. They were not alone. They probably had a dozen friends who attended these shows as well. These were not drive to the Omni or Lakewood shows that I used to do. These trips probably cost them $5k each in tix, plane tix, accommodations, outfits, and extras. I was talking to them over Christmas about the funny post 3yearletterman made about TSwift and how the Swifties came out of the woodwork dogging him out not knowing it was satire. The financial analyst daughter spent 30 minutes talking about the economic impact a Swift show had on a city and the region. Every Swift show is greater than a Super Bowl in impact. Arenas or Stadiums and civic gov fight to get her to come to their town. A large % of a show's audience are not local to that area, it's just where they were able to get a ticket. It was truly eye opening. This girl is a marketing and $$$ machine. Her tour last year generated $5-10B and her PPV that came out around Christmas will be the highest viewed and $$ money maker on any streaming platform. She's bringing those fans to the NFL so they can watch cameras cut away to show her for seconds every time Kelce makes a play. This is a prayer sent from Heaven for the NFL. If another network aired a live TSwift concert opposite the Super Bowl in 2 weeks, her viewership would dwarf the game. I couldn't name you a single song she sings. I recognize her music because it's everywhere and you just don't know it unless you're part of that world.

On another note, when she and Kelce hit splitsville, she'll write a whole album about him and crush him and the NFL like an ant.
 
Isbell has benefited greatly from the craze. Turnpike is finally getting their due, etc. It's why Oliver Anthony was a hit overnight. People aren't thirsty for AI created nonsense, they relate to real music.

(no part of this is me being combative) Remember about a year ago when I said ZB would be the biggest thing in country music when we look back in 20 years and I was over my skis then? He's surpassed every other "country" artist and all but caught Wallen and let's be honest, his music is going to translate for the next 20 and Morgan is just the current poster child for pop country radio...

Dude is in the Taylor Swift/Ed Sheeran league and separate from the rest in his genre.
I don’t know. I remember you saying you thought Zach Bryan was the best songwriter by far which I didn’t agree with then and I don’t agree with now. He definitely has caught on more mainstream it seems though.
 
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Mainstream pop music today is the fast-food of music. Easy to get, easy to consume and not very good. It’s not like she is writing these timeless songs that people will remember 20-30 years from now. She’s the best short-order fast-food music writer to come around. I’m not saying there isn’t a place for it as I’m guilty of like some of it, but it’s just sad that it’s what all mainstream styles have become.
 
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She's in a league of her own because she's the best songwriter to do her genre. She writes her own stuff and makes her own arrangements. Same reason Miranda Lambert holds steady for female country singers. When you can write your own music you're not waiting around on the label, you bring a shit ton to the table and they can make hit albums like clockwork.
I get all that. But doing all that honestly shouldn't seem that unique. Those qualities used to be 'a dime a dozen'. I mentioned perfect storm in this thread. She's rare that she does the things she does, but it shouldn't be that rare. Like, it seems even luckier that she's doing this at a time when virtually NOBODY is doing it, making her preperarion, work and skill stand out disproportionately than it probably should.

Honestly, her music comes across as an 80's 6 out of 10. All this to say the rarity in what she does is more phenomenal than the quality of her work itself. A part of it is just dumb luck. If she were capable of writing more sophisticated music, she would be less popular. Her skills are perfect for zeroing in on the LCD to boot. There is a lot of perfect luck here imo.
 
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I don’t know. I remember you saying you thought Zach Bryan was the best songwriter by far which I didn’t agree with then and I don’t agree with now. He definitely has caught on more mainstream it seems though.
I said when we look back in 20 years he will be the biggest name in country music by a landslide. He's an excellent songwriter, different from an Isbell or Evan from Turnpike(hugely influenced by both). His combination of live performing mixed with his ability to churn out great music is unmatched currently in my opinion.
 
I said when we look back in 20 years he will be the biggest name in country music by a landslide. He's an excellent songwriter, different from an Isbell or Evan from Turnpike(hugely influenced by both). His combination of live performing mixed with his ability to churn out great music is unmatched currently in my opinion.
I hear you. I don’t know that being the “biggest name in country music” is necessarily a good thing, but I do think he’s talented and we’re probably picking nits here. I think the bottom line is you think a lot more of ZB than I do. And that’s fine
 
I grew up in Athens and my music view is dominated by that mindset. However, I have daughters who are industrial engineers and live in Texas and North Carolina. They flew around the country last year and attended a couple Swift shows and enjoyed the experience. They were not alone. They probably had a dozen friends who attended these shows as well. These were not drive to the Omni or Lakewood shows that I used to do. These trips probably cost them $5k each in tix, plane tix, accommodations, outfits, and extras. I was talking to them over Christmas about the funny post 3yearletterman made about TSwift and how the Swifties came out of the woodwork dogging him out not knowing it was satire. The financial analyst daughter spent 30 minutes talking about the economic impact a Swift show had on a city and the region. Every Swift show is greater than a Super Bowl in impact. Arenas or Stadiums and civic gov fight to get her to come to their town. A large % of a show's audience are not local to that area, it's just where they were able to get a ticket. It was truly eye opening. This girl is a marketing and $$$ machine. Her tour last year generated $5-10B and her PPV that came out around Christmas will be the highest viewed and $$ money maker on any streaming platform. She's bringing those fans to the NFL so they can watch cameras cut away to show her for seconds every time Kelce makes a play. This is a prayer sent from Heaven for the NFL. If another network aired a live TSwift concert opposite the Super Bowl in 2 weeks, her viewership would dwarf the game. I couldn't name you a single song she sings. I recognize her music because it's everywhere and you just don't know it unless you're part of that world.

On another note, when she and Kelce hit splitsville, she'll write a whole album about him and crush him and the NFL like an ant.
I appreciate this response. I get what you're saying. It also makes me feel like the machines have won and humanity lost.

I need a sad LOL emoji for this. 😉
 
I hear you. I don’t know that being the “biggest name in country music” is necessarily a good thing, but I do think he’s talented and we’re probably picking nits here. I think the bottom line is you think a lot more of ZB than I do. And that’s fine
I agree. I don't think being the biggest thing in "country" is necessarily a good thing. Hell, he's hardly country. Cooler thing is watching transcend the genre in the simplest way possible. Writing, picking, making music with his boys. It's been fun to watch.
 
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But then again, I'm just massively out of touch. I never thought that would happen. I go to plenty of shows. I'm a music appreciator, but there has been such a buffer between what I listen to and what the rest of the world seems to listen to for so long, that it's not even a matter of not liking it (which I admit I don't care for it), I just don't even understand how people listen to this stuff. Like, I isolated myself from the entire progression that led up to this point.

Now befrore you break your neck from nodding in agreement, it didn't happen the way you probably think it did. If you think you can relate to me to this point, you're probably wrong. I likely hated your music before you became a curmudgeon about today's music. I'm paying the price with compounding interest for being a record store prick in my youth. You probably met one in your youth in Atlanta or Athens.

At anyrate, I don't understand anyone's interest in anything that's bringing in Grammy gold, but I do recognize why Taylor (I think she's more savy than she is a great musician), Billie Eilish, Adele (who is admittedly just flat out talented) and a few others stand out, even though I'm not sure they would have stood out thirty years ago. Yeah. I think younger Millineals and Zoomers got the shit end of the stick. I hope it gets better for their sake. I'm not saying that, mean spirited. I do think disdain for modern music is in partially due to people becoming ouldes and curmudgeons... but I also think modern pop, bro country, mumble rap, butt rock also happens to be shit-tier. And it's not completely the fault of the person who listens to this musical poop.

BTW, my morning listen while I made this rant. Virtually nobody liked this, even the music snobs.

Woke up and had Alexa play some newer music for me (Last 15-20 years). The Decemberists, Damian Rice, Gary Jules....and its good. I am old, but I am open. I just dont like what is being made now, or at least what I am hearing. I am sure there are some great bands out there that just arent getting played. Hopefully.
 
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