NonDawg One of the Venter’s daughter wrote

[rectomo]

Great writer, but I disagree with her conclusions and constructs. Hyperbole and anecdotal examples are useful in persuasion, but not in reporting news. There are false qualifiers and opinions presented as facts. If this is an opinion piece, so be it. It is not labeled as editorial but is written as one. I guess that is the whole point of the Atlantic. I am sure the National Review has an opposing piece. Thus we are free to disagree with the author just as we do each other on here and be proud of her as an alum.

I doubt she wrote that headline. That was bad and her editor should apologize for that and the subhead.

Some good points but yes, it is an opinion piece from a publication that prints opinion pieces. It is a literary, political, and cultural commentary magazine and has been for 163 years. It was written for Atlantic readership - socially liberal. I'm sure most of her audience appreciated it. The majority of the Dawgvent...not so much.

 

[HuskerDawg1005]

Hey, it could be worse. At least she did not write the "The Case for Reparations". I'm certain that Atlantic piece would have been well received by most on this forum...

That piece is really good. It's exceptional, actually. It's also incredibly long (40k words or so).

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

I'm sure you're smarter than this...but who could tell by this response.

LOL, okay. I'm sure the governor should have ignored her https://gema.georgia.gov/commissioner-kathleen-toomey and called mayors and asked them if they were capable of making their own decisions based on the situation in their city. Yeah, stop me from getting a haircut in Ringgold because the situation is rough in Albany.

 

[riserrr]

I guess that is the whole point of the Atlantic. I am sure the National Review has an opposing piece.

Exactly. What we are seeing in this thread is when two different internet information silos merge for a brief moment.

 

[rectomo]

That piece is really good. It's exceptional, actually. It's also incredibly long (40k words or so).

Coates did not receive a MacArthur Foundation Grant for being intellectually inadequate.

 

[silverridge]

Amanda Mull is the author (she's a very good writer). She's also a huge Georgia fan.

Was her dad Curt Mull that played for Georgia?

 

[HuskerDawg1005]

Was her dad Curt Mull that played for Georgia?

I have no idea.

 

[anon_w4pknohc0ndth]

This chick is crazy lol.

 

[wstugamd]

I think her parents should be proud of her accomplishments. She shouldn't be ashamed.

However her article is inflammatory and poorly researched.

Kemp has forced no one to go back to work only allowed people to return if they choose.

Does she realize that many jobs are essential, and many have never stopped working yet we are still here

Jesus - “For weeks, Americans have watched the coronavirus sweep from city to city, overwhelming hospitals, traumatizing health-care workers, and leaving tens of thousands of bodies in makeshift morgues.”

WOW! Strong. I guess I'm traumatized and don't realize it?

F-ing human sacrifice. LOL.
All I needed to see was the opening comment "The state is about to find out how many people need to lose their lives to shore up the economy" to see that it's nothing but emotional panic driven bulls--t like everything else is in today's media & society. Emotions rule over everything, common sense & rational thought have no place in America's discourse anymore.

I though she was talking about abortion.......

Pneumonia and influenza kill an average of 60,000 people per year. COVID-19 has killed more than 60,000 in seven weeks DESPITE THE LOCKDOWN. And there is still no recognized effective treatment or vaccine.

In the history of mankind never have healthy people been quarantined unless suspected of infection. There is no science behind this. NYC never shut the subway down. Many people have just kept on working. We all go to the store. There is no evidence any lock down did anything. We have an entire course of human history that shows viruses run their course.

 

[stick jackson]

Hey, it could be worse. At least she did not write the "The Case for Reparations". I'm certain that Atlantic piece would have been well received by most on this forum...

Aw, didn't you used to have Aguirre as your avatar? I was always glad to see him pop up.

driving is more of a necessity than our entire economy and way of life?

And the provision you quoted makes little sense. With the quarantine you are forced into possible financial ruin. All Kemp did was give you the option of avoiding that if you choose. He didn’t force it.

If anyone has experience litigating force majeure provisions in leases and lending agreements, I will defer to your expertise but one likely consequence of the "reopening" is that small businesses will now lose that defense against landlords and creditors.

Most businesses, and certainly the kind of true mom and pop small businesses people try to make this about, can't exist absent half their customers. And no politician can change the fact that roughly half of the population is either (a) elderly (b) medically vulnerable or (c) wants or needs to be in close contact with those people. As someone in group C, I really wish it were otherwise, but that's how it is. My college-age kids sure aren't enjoying any part of this, but they understand that they have a choice between being around their parents and their grandfather and participating in the in-person economy.

The airlines aren't shut down (indeed, the government is forcing them to fly mostly empty planes) but passenger levels are a tiny fraction of what they were. The movie theaters is Sweden are open, but no one is going to movies.

The virus is the problem. We have a lot of Barbershop Bravehearts on this board, but in real life too many people have to deal with the reality that a haircut could result in the death of a loved one. It sucks, including for the small businesses our spending has been keeping afloat.

 

[stray]

Pneumonia and influenza kill an average of 60,000 people per year. COVID-19 has killed more than 60,000 in seven weeks DESPITE THE LOCKDOWN. And there is still no recognized effective treatment or vaccine.

But while you and I can respectfully disagree about the scale of this problem and the question of reopening bowling alleys, the responses you're getting come from your suggestion that the author of this piece and her family should be publicly shamed. Sorry, that's just childish. And you should be embarrassed for suggesting that.

Well, waiting for a vaccine is not a good game plan. There are many viruses we have never been able to create a vaccine for and we never get one for this one. In the case of influenza, we have a vaccine, and we still lose 40-80,000 every year.
We have learned a good deal about how to avoid this virus and protect those who are most vulnerable. We should have done something similar to Turkey, but since we didn't, we should learn from it now. They didn't have a complete shutdown. They protected the vulnerable and continued operating in a safe way. They have a little over 3000 deaths in a country of 82 million. That would be like us having about 12,000 deaths at this point. Not saying we should copy everything they did but they didn't go as far as we did, so I think we can a least open up in a similar fashion.
Most of us are adults in will avoid situations where we don't have confidence and companies have a financial motive to create a business environment where people feel confident there is a low risk of contracting the virus. Bottom line, the free market will create an environment that will limit the spread. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

[hlaw416]

I think Kemp jumped the gun, but to say he “opened up an entire state” is also blatantly inaccurate.

Can agree to disagree. When he took his actions, he banned any locality from imposing restrictions. So, in that sense, one could argue he opened up the state.

 

[fdawg1103]

She makes a powerful point: "Georgia’s brash reopening puts much of the state’s working class in an impossible bind: risk death at work, or risk ruining yourself financially at home."

I suppose it is better for the Government to remove that choice from the people? That's the alternative. The government literally saying working class people are not allowed to work.

 

[AgEngDawg]

That piece is really good. It's exceptional, actually. It's also incredibly long (40k words or so).

It was unpersuasive at best. It does not really address further dividing a divided country.

 

[Weyman C. Wannamaker Jr.]

Still waiting for her article about Colorado reopening and how they are also experimenting with human sacrifice. I mean they opened everything we did except restaurants. Of course Colorado opened daycares and Georgia didn’t. Funny how I haven’t seen any “articles” about how Gov. Polis is killing people. Wonder why?

 

[rectomo]

Aw, didn't you used to have Aguirre as your avatar? I was always glad to see him pop up.


If anyone has experience litigating force majeure provisions in leases and lending agreements, I will defer to your expertise but one likely consequence of the "reopening" is that small businesses will now lose that defense against landlords and creditors.

Most businesses, and certainly the kind of true mom and pop small businesses people try to make this about, can't exist absent half their customers. And no politician can change the fact that roughly half of the population is either (a) elderly (b) medically vulnerable or (c) wants or needs to be in close contact with those people. As someone in group C, I really wish it were otherwise, but that's how it is. My college-age kids sure aren't enjoying any part of this, but they understand that they have a choice between being around their parents and their grandfather and participating in the in-person economy.

The airlines aren't shut down (indeed, the government is forcing them to fly mostly empty planes) but passenger levels are a tiny fraction of what they were. The movie theaters is Sweden are open, but no one is going to movies.

The virus is the problem. We have a lot of Barbershop Bravehearts on this board, but in real life too many people have to deal with the reality that a haircut could result in the death of a loved one. It sucks, including for the small businesses our spending has been keeping afloat.

I miss Aquirre, too, but I moved into a different house a year ago and have been meaning to change him out for the new avatar. The new one works a couple of different ways. Aquirre is back talking to the monkeys.

 

[HuskerDawg1005]

Still waiting for her article about Colorado reopening and how they are also experimenting with human sacrifice. I mean they opened everything we did except restaurants. Of course Colorado opened daycares and Georgia didn’t. Funny how I haven’t seen any “articles” about how Gov. Polis is killing people. Wonder why?

Mull is from Georgia and went to UGA, which is most likely why she chose to write about it. That and the fact that Georgia was one of the last to shelter in place and the first to open up makes it unique. That might be why.

 

[dbldawg2004]

Aw, didn't you used to have Aguirre as your avatar? I was always glad to see him pop up.


If anyone has experience litigating force majeure provisions in leases and lending agreements, I will defer to your expertise but one likely consequence of the "reopening" is that small businesses will now lose that defense against landlords and creditors.

Most businesses, and certainly the kind of true mom and pop small businesses people try to make this about, can't exist absent half their customers. And no politician can change the fact that roughly half of the population is either (a) elderly (b) medically vulnerable or (c) wants or needs to be in close contact with those people. As someone in group C, I really wish it were otherwise, but that's how it is. My college-age kids sure aren't enjoying any part of this, but they understand that they have a choice between being around their parents and their grandfather and participating in the in-person economy.

The airlines aren't shut down (indeed, the government is forcing them to fly mostly empty planes) but passenger levels are a tiny fraction of what they were. The movie theaters is Sweden are open, but no one is going to movies.

The virus is the problem. We have a lot of Barbershop Bravehearts on this board, but in real life too many people have to deal with the reality that a haircut could result in the death of a loved one. It sucks, including for the small businesses our spending has been keeping afloat.

Force majeure is not an issue.

But you can not force others to make the decision you want to benefit you. You and your kids do not have to go out. And/or we can quarantine those at risk.

but you cannot prohibit society from continuing because you do not want to quarantine those at risk or practically can’t. I wish we could but we simply can’t.

And no business has to open. But the government simply doesn’t have a justification for prohibiting people from running their business. The virus is just not that dangerous.

 

[AgEngDawg]

Mull is from Georgia and went to UGA, which is most likely why she chose to write about it. That and the fact that Georgia was one of the last to shelter in place and the first to open up makes it unique. That might be why.

No one currently living in Brooklyn should be criticizing Georgia for anything regarding Covid. The subway operating 24/7 makes NY unique.

 

[LowerEastSideDawg]

You didn’t address why pneumonia and influenza deaths plummeted as soon as Covid supposedly ramped up in the US (early March).

And opinions are like @ssholes, everyones got one

I made the point that only 5,000 Americans per month die from those illnesses. So any "plummet" in the numbers isn't going to have that big an effect on overall COVID numbers. You must have missed that.

 

[HuskerDawg1005]

No one currently living in Brooklyn should be criticizing Georgia for anything regarding Covid. The subway operating 24/7 makes NY unique.

You know... that's an awfully dumb thought. You can disagree with the piece. That's perfectly fair. But saying, "well... this person lives THERE so they can't critique HERE" is just... it's just nonsensical.

 

[Weyman C. Wannamaker Jr.]

Mull is from Georgia and went to UGA, which is most likely why she chose to write about it. That and the fact that Georgia was one of the last to shelter in place and the first to open up makes it unique. That might be why.

Wrong. Colorado’s Governor is a gay democrat. That’s why.

 

[AgEngDawg]

You know... that's an awfully dumb thought. You can disagree with the piece. That's perfectly fair. But saying, "well... this person lives THERE so they can't critique HERE" is just... it's just nonsensical.

It opens the person to hypocrisy charges. You should know that and I am shocked that you do not.

 

[HuskerDawg1005]

Wrong. Colorado’s Governor is a gay democrat. That’s why.

Or it could be CO's cases and deaths are much lower than Georgia's.

 

[RealKosher]

No one currently living in Brooklyn should be criticizing Georgia for anything regarding Covid. The subway operating 24/7 makes NY unique.

Not to mention NY is forcing nursing homes to take in patients recovering from Covid. But reeee, Kemp is sacrificing humans

 

[HuskerDawg1005]

It opens the person to hypocrisy charges. You should know that.

One can live in Brooklyn or Bergamo or Wuhan and still critically examine other places.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

No one currently living in Brooklyn should be criticizing Georgia for anything regarding Covid. The subway operating 24/7 makes NY unique.

Well, that and the state sending active covid patients to nursing homes to recover. While I laughed at the study condemning southerners for traveling over 5 miles while NYC was running subways, I simply can't wrap my head around the idea of sending infected people back to nursing homes. Knowing what we've known for a while, that decision almost has to be nefarious.

 

[LowerEastSideDawg]

Well, waiting for a vaccine is not a good game plan. ....

I agree with that completely. And I agree with many other points you made. I don't think I would use Turkey as a model. Not sure how many tests they've done, and their stats are not much more reliable than China's. That said, I agree with most of your post.

And I'm not arguing about whether Georgia should reopen. Personally, I don't know. I'm holding my breath and hoping for the best like everybody else. I'm just arguing with those who treat this virus like it's no big deal or ignore the fact that the lockdown has done a lot to keep numbers lower than some feared.

And I'm also arguing with one guy who thinks the Vent should stage a ritual humiliation ceremony for the author of that article and her parents.

 

[AgEngDawg]

One can live in Brooklyn or Bergamo or Wuhan and still critically examine other places.

Let's worry about the worst issues first. We have a real problem in NY and their subway system.

We can worry about the Georgia barbers later. The scale of the issues make the Georgia one insignificant.

 

[Weyman C. Wannamaker Jr.]

Or it could be CO's cases and deaths are much lower than Georgia's.

Wrong again. Georgia has a lower rate of infection and a lower death rate than Colorado. We’ve also tested more than twice as many people.

 

[AgEngDawg]

Wrong again. Georgia has a lower rate of infection and a lower death rate than Colorado. We’ve also tested more than twice as many people.

 

[HydroAlum]

What is the continuous operation of the NY subway system.

A way for the nurses, firemen, etc. that are putting their lives in danger can get to work?

 

[AgEngDawg]

A way for the nurses, firemen, etc. that are putting their lives in danger can get to work?

Extroadinary times call for extroadinary measures. Surely the state can coordinate their transportation and shut the subway down. With the scale of the problem in NYC, only emergency travel should be allowed.

 

[HuskerDawg1005]

Wrong again. Georgia has a lower rate of infection and a lower death rate than Colorado. We’ve also tested more than twice as many people.

GA: 10.6 million residents
CO: 5.8 million

GA: 144,000 tests
CO: 71,000 tests

GA: 26,033 cases
CO: 14,758 cases

GA: 1,107 deaths
CO: 766 deaths

So while you're right that Georgia has tested more, but it's basically on par with CO per capita, which is what matters.

Here's the most up to date numbers:

https://covidtracking.com/data#state-ga
https://covidtracking.com/data#state-co

 

[LowerEastSideDawg]

Anybody still arguing about the subway doesn't know anything about New York City. People who live in this city take public transport everywhere. Not that many own cars, because they don't need them.

That means that every essential worker in a city of 9 million still needs the subway to get to work right now. Hospitals, police, firefighters and other essentials can't function if the subway goes down for any length of time.

And there are many fewer trains running right now because of the illness impact on subway employees.

 

[dbldawg2004]

Exactly. What we are seeing in this thread is when two different internet information silos merge for a brief moment.

She is an extremist - and only people with her same extremist beliefs will find any value in it. Like guys saying COVID killed 61,000. Wtf

 

[dbldawg2004]

Anybody still arguing about the subway doesn't know anything about New York City. People who live in this city take public transport everywhere. Not that many own cars, because they don't need them.

That means that every essential worker in a city of 9 million still needs the subway to get to work right now. Hospitals, police, firefighters and other essentials can't function if the subway goes down for any length of time.

And there are many fewer trains running right now because of the illness impact on subway employees.

Every essential worker needs the subway? Dude, wtf

but you can’t pretend to quarantine and allow people in the subway at least not without strict restrictions and guidelines.

NY was an absolute failure - as bad as anywhere in the world.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

A way for the nurses, firemen, etc. that are putting their lives in danger can get to work?

WTF difference does that make. The virus is either transmitted in close quarters or it isn't. The fact that some folks really, really need to get to work doesn't change the science.

So, if social distancing is a thing, it was the leadership of NY and NYC to figure out how to safely transport essential employees. I'm just a dumbass ole southern boy but my suggestion would have been:

1. Instead of cutting schedules, I would have actually increased schedules to alleviate overcrowding.

2. Shut down the subway system to all except those issued an essential employee pass. I gave one to all my employees when states started imposing shelter in place.

3. Have personnel stationed at entry points to ensure cars were only getting loaded to a capacity that allowed for distancing.

4. Required all riders to where masks and safety glasses while on the trains.

 

[Gandawg the Grey]

Are y’all telling me your knickers are in a twist about a liberal leaning OPINION magazine? Who would have thought that here lol.

for my first effin chat post in over a decade learn to disagree with an opinion without being rude or an idiot. It is possible you know.

sure there is some hyperbole in it but whether you agree or disagree it’s well written and I am happy for her and her Dad. Go Dawgs!

 

[stray]

A way for the nurses, firemen, etc. that are putting their lives in danger can get to work?

So, they limited everyone but those people? Or did they just continue as usual? If that was the case they would have prevented everyone but them from using the subway to protect those workers from needless exposure, but they didn't.
This is all on Cuomo. One of many mistakes by Governor party nipples.