NonDawg One of the Venter’s daughter wrote
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@Radi Nabulsi I had the same thought you expressed at the end. I've never been in the newspaper business, but have known people and it was common for an editor to write the headline. No idea if true for a publication like the Atlantic. But everyone's going for the "clicks" in media, so that's what we get.
Laughed at your line "There are false qualifiers and opinions presented as facts" because that is true of most of the things written about the virus on the Chat (where we all knew it was going to be moved). It is what it is.
You say force majeure is not an issue. Why isn't it? As a lawyer (but again, not one who claims expertise in this narrow subspecialty of law) I think it likely will be. Before people could argue they were forced to close, now a lender or landlord can just say, "Too bad, you don't have enough customers to make the payment, that's your problem." What do you have to offer here besides an unsupported assertion?
You also don't respond to what I wrote, but instead repeat the same thing you've posted literally 100 (200? 250?) times. What I am saying is that no matter what you reopen, large numbers (again, my back of the envelope calculation is half, it's likely not more than that and might be a bit lower, but I'd be willing to bet it's more than 40%; above 65 is 15% all by itself) of consumers are forced to opt out of the consumer economy that existed two months ago. You can't run a consumer economy without half the customers.
So for these purposes I'm not arguing for anyone to do anything to help me. My family and our wallets are out, no matter what (and again, so are the 40-50% of the population in the same situation). That's the reality you need to grapple with instead of just chanting your "you've got to reopen" mantra.
I'm asking, what, beyond platitudes about you've just got to let people reopen, you have to offer businesses that even if open will have lost between a third and a half of their revenue? Who has margins so huge they can sustain that?
Thank you for proving my point. Georgia's numbers and Colorado's numbers are virtually the same (Georgia's are slightly better by every metric on a per capita basis). Yet Governor Kemp is getting ravaged by every media outlet while Governor Polis is getting a free pass because he's a Democrat.
Wait now. Aren’t you being an asshole by calling him an asshole for doing the same as you and that’s stating his opinion? Wee hypocritical imo.
Force majeure rarely if ever excuses rent payment. If there was a covenant to operate then that would be excused by FM but no court (when they reopen) is evicting right now for a failure to operate and there are numerous other elements of FM that are probably still triggered (labor shortage etc).
The fact consumers may not want to shop is not an argument for your ability to prohibit another person from operating their business. They are grown men and women and can make that decision without you. In fact, the reluctance of consumers is more of a reason to open the economy now and allow people to slowly get comfortable with interacting/ shopping etc. if you wait until July, for example, you just scare people more and if it will take consumers 2 months now, for example, to get comfortable then in July it probably takes 3 months and we are well into the fall.
I don't know all the legalese as I'm no attorney, but the basic principle of the government letting the people decide when to open and when to go out and shop seems sound to me. Only one side of this argument is trying to force people into doing something they may not want to do.
The problem I had with the article is that it speaks from a POV that suggests Kemp is forcing people to work that don't want to work. To my knowledge, he has yet to tell any business that they HAVE to open. He's just taking the restraints off and allowing those that want to open safely the opportunity to do so.
The author says he's giving people an impossible choice of risking death or financial ruin. There's no mention that the alternative forces financial ruin on many of these businesses.
I think the argument is that people who are afraid to work are forced to go back because unemployment will no longer be available. This ignores the fact it was never about an absolute guaranty of safety. There's no such thing.
All I know is, I've already lost my grandfather, a Korean War vet, to COVID19 (via the Long Island, NY outbreaks).
If my parents (in North Atlanta) come down with it, Brian Kemp will have a lot of brown bags filled with surprises waiting for him at W. Paces Ferry to say the least (and if my safe parents catch it, that would mean a lot more people have, and I won't be the only one feeling this way).
Good luck, Georgia, from quarantine in Ontario.
(and I worked one floor above The Atlantic for a year at their DC office; great publication and people. Shared an elevator with Chris Christie while there!)
(...also, looks like this is my first post!)
If my parents (in North Atlanta) come down with it, Brian Kemp will have a lot of brown bags filled with surprises waiting for him at W. Paces Ferry to say the least (and if my safe parents catch it, that would mean a lot more people have, and I won't be the only one feeling this way).
Good luck, Georgia, from quarantine in Ontario.
(and I worked one floor above The Atlantic for a year at their DC office; great publication and people. Shared an elevator with Chris Christie while there!)
(...also, looks like this is my first post!)
Fair point, but as you say, there's no guarantee of safety even if they wait til June. At some point, businesses are going to reopen and unemployment is not going to be any option. The timing of it all seems to be the issue the author takes unless she thinks we should stay shut down until a vaccine comes.
A labor shortage, or more accurately higher labor costs that low margin businesses can't afford, triggers force majeure? Really? You sure you want to stick with that one? The courts aren't enforcing contracts now because they are closed, and also won't when they are open? Pretty sure you are wrong about all this and just trying to handwave away an issue. But either way, it's speculative for the moment, and I'm not going to argue about it anymore.
What you still fail to grasp, because you insist on turning everyone who disagrees with you into a fanatical nanny stater, is I'm not arguing here for keeping things closed down. I'm assuming we open up, and asking what happens. So repeating "gotta open up" for the 251st time isn't responsive.
I'm just asking for what you plan to do for all the businesses that are screwed after you open up because between a half and a third of us aren't going to "get comfortable" with anything. We're locked out of supporting those businesses, no matter what, very much against our preferences and much to our chagrin. And the answer, apparently, is nothing.
That's true but I expect more from a journalist.
I may have been to quick to throw the editor under the bus.
Here is a tweet:
This was a despicable way to describe the situation. She seems to have fallen for the notion that the lockdown was going to prevent illness. Or maybe I am confused. But I was told the lockdown would keep us from overwhelming the medical facilities. We accomplished that. Her line about them being overwhelmed in city after city is factually wrong.
And you would've been good with that, or screeching about government overreach, blah, blah, blah?
Tucker and Sean. The usual morons.
Sounds like she’s condescending to the point that having a different point of view goes right thru her brain. She reminds me of what I call a bat crazy point of view. Loves talking down to her opposition of how she thinks, has a little joy behar in her...has a lot of things built up inside.
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I would bet you a month from now Georgia's numbers are not off the charts except I don't trust the cooking of the of the books that might be done
Right on both counts. She's guilty as charged. In simplistic terms, the lockdown was to smooth the curve as you state. Obviously, more than that, but that was the basic intent. We have to keep in mind that much was unknown at that time (and still is) and it was a tough decision. Some people just want to make it seem like there was a simple answer.
I don't know her and don't live in Georgia, but this is not a journalistic effort. I'm old enough to remember when we had three TV networks and each had a great journalist to be a spokesperson of sorts in time of crisis. Now, every Tom, Dick and Harriett can have their say. While it may expose us to more opinions, I can't say we're better off.
No - not as it relates to margins. But labor shortage is often an element. Point is the operators have little to no practical risk. Matters not to me whether you pretend to believe it not.
As for the rest I am sensing you aren’t looking for a reasonable conversation. But you simply must open as soon as possible and weather through the irrational fear that has been built. People will return to life eventually.
I read this article this morning, and while I completely disagree with her, if I were her parent I would be very proud of her.
While I would be proud of my daughter for rising to that level in her chosen career, I would certainly express my disappointment at using language equating relaxing restrictions during a stressful time to human sacrifices. That was beyond repulsive and not needed to express the concerns of people that are reluctant about interacting with the public.
Wow. Small businesses have no risk, even in these times, apparently especially in these times. That is some real reasoned analysis right there.
And it's apparent that you really are incapable of anything beyond, open up open up. My last post was, "ASSUME YOU OPEN UP, what happens then given that 40% percent of population can't return to normal, at least until their loved ones are dead?" And your response was "you're unreasonable; you've got to open up." I granted you that we're going to open up, and all you could say was literally "open up."
And I now I am going to open up a cold one.
GA numbers are incorrect. A State Epidemiologist finally returned my call today. I noticed the numbers for the GDPH weren’t increasing in certain counties while simultaneously the numbers were increasing exponentially in the GDCH long-term care facility report. The long term care facility numbers aren’t included in the GDPH numbers. Very frustrating.
The straw man is pretty weak. You asked about force majeure risk. I told you they have “little to no practical risk”. Now go read your first paragraph again and I am here when you are ready for that apology.
as for the rest of your post, answered your question above. There is no magic bullet to overcoming the irrational fear in the consumer. You simply must weather through it but this process is aided by opening up earlier rather than later as the longer you wait the more fear builds.
and I never said you were unreasonable- I said it is clear you are not looking for a reasonable conversation and that is obvious.
Haha - it actually would be great if she wanted to talk about her article. Everyone here would have to make a pledge of civility but I would genuinely be curious on some of the thoughts behind her assertions.
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That would be nice but this is the free board and you know we have trolls aplenty who would wade in
True, I don’t align with him politically. But, I’ve met him and had a non-political conversation with him. He’s absolutely a moron.
I’m imagining she wrote about Georgia because she’s from here, went to school here, still has family, contacts and an interest in the area.
I've said this on different mediums, but as someone who identifies as more socialist than liberal and is currently hiding out in Canada waiting for the virus to subside (and clearly wouldn't see things eye-to-eye politically with a good number of the people in this thread ;D),
I believe our POTUS is more intelligent than Brian Kemp. Use whatever metric you want to use to gauge that, whether they're high or low on it, I believe that's how they are positioned.
Now? We were already famous.
Once I looked at the tweet and saw the screen cap I could see the top of avitar so I feel prettttty good about myself.
Didn’t the Trump administration issue guidelines on when states should reopen? (They did.) Does Georgia meet those guidelines. (It doesn’t.)
What I can do without is people who are employed telling those who no longer have jobs how to feel.
30 Million unemployed is far worse than any projected death toll going forward. I'm sorry but it is.
30 Million unemployed is far worse than any projected death toll going forward. I'm sorry but it is.
Understatment
I completely understand how critical the subway and public transit is to NYC. However we have all had to make sacrifices. We have had the sanctimonious lectures about how we might possibly could somehow transmit the virus unbeknownst to ourselves to someone who might could possibly contract the illness and might could possibly die and we just can't do that. So how is NYC able to justify the sacrifice of so many humans using the subway just so "essential" workers can work? Why have I been forced out of my gym where there is far more room and "social distance" than the subway but the subway continues on? You can't have it both ways. Either this virus is the most lethal threat to the continued existence of mankind and is highly contagious especially in tight spaces, then there is absolutely no reason to keep the subway going, or all that social distancing is just a joke on us rubes living in flyover land to inconvenience us but NYC is exempt. The fact the subway is still running tells you how dangerous the virus is.
yep. It is absurd and the height of hypocrisy. The entire world must shut down but we can't find essential workers alternative means of transportation to work?
Only NYC. What a disaster.
