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Great writer, but I disagree with her conclusions and constructs. Hyperbole and anecdotal examples are useful in persuasion, but not in reporting news. There are false qualifiers and opinions presented as facts. If this is an opinion piece, so be it. It is not labeled as editorial but is written as one. I guess that is the whole point of the Atlantic. I am sure the National Review has an opposing piece. Thus we are free to disagree with the author just as we do each other on here and be proud of her as an alum.
I doubt she wrote that headline. That was bad and her editor should apologize for that and the subhead.
What bothers me is the Government can use a public health crisis to gain complete control of our lives. Given the facts that we know the death rates or over stated. Given the fact that our immune system maybe effective way to end this virus with some help from zinc. Some of immune Doctors I have listed to are irate over how this pandemic has been handle. I guess opinions are tongues everybody has one
Force majeure is not an issue.
But you can not force others to make the decision you want to benefit you. You and your kids do not have to go out. And/or we can quarantine those at risk.
but you cannot prohibit society from continuing because you do not want to quarantine those at risk or practically can’t. I wish we could but we simply can’t.
And no business has to open. But the government simply doesn’t have a justification for prohibiting people from running their business. The virus is just not that dangerous.
GA: 10.6 million residents
CO: 5.8 million
GA: 144,000 tests
CO: 71,000 tests
GA: 26,033 cases
CO: 14,758 cases
GA: 1,107 deaths
CO: 766 deaths
So while you're right that Georgia has tested more, but it's basically on par with CO per capita, which is what matters.
Here's the most up to date numbers:
https://covidtracking.com/data#state-ga
https://covidtracking.com/data#state-co
Wait now. Aren’t you being an asshole by calling him an asshole for doing the same as you and that’s stating his opinion? Wee hypocritical imo.This may be beyond your comprehension, but intelligent people can view the same issue and come to different conclusions. There’s no need for you to be an asshole. She’s an incredibly talented writer and a wonderful representative of the University of Georgia.
I don’t necessarily agree 100% with the piece but it is heavily sourced and well written.
Force majeure rarely if ever excuses rent payment. If there was a covenant to operate then that would be excused by FM but no court (when they reopen) is evicting right now for a failure to operate and there are numerous other elements of FM that are probably still triggered (labor shortage etc).You say force majeure is not an issue. Why isn't it? As a lawyer (but again, not one who claims expertise in this narrow subspecialty of law) I think it likely will be. Before people could argue they were forced to close, now a lender or landlord can just say, "Too bad, you don't have enough customers to make the payment, that's your problem." What do you have to offer here besides an unsupported assertion?
You also don't respond to what I wrote, but instead repeat the same thing you've posted literally 100 (200? 250?) times. What I am saying is that no matter what you reopen, large numbers (again, my back of the envelope calculation is half, it's likely not more than that and might be a bit lower, but I'd be willing to bet it's more than 40%; above 65 is 15% all by itself) of consumers are forced to opt out of the consumer economy that existed two months ago. You can't run a consumer economy without half the customers.
So for these purposes I'm not arguing for anyone to do anything to help me. My family and our wallets are out, no matter what (and again, so are the 40-50% of the population in the same situation). That's the reality you need to grapple with instead of just chanting your "you've got to reopen" mantra.
I'm asking, what, beyond platitudes about you've just got to let people reopen, you have to offer businesses that even if open will have lost between a third and a half of their revenue? Who has margins so huge they can sustain that?
Force majeure rarely if ever excuses rent payment. If there was a covenant to operate then that would be excused by FM but no court (when they reopen) is evicting right now for a failure to operate and there are numerous other elements of FM that are probably still triggered (labor shortage etc).
The fact consumers may not want to shop is not an argument for your ability to prohibit another person from operating their business. They are grown men and women and can make that decision without you. In fact, the reluctance of consumers is more of a reason to open the economy now and allow people to slowly get comfortable with interacting/ shopping etc. if you wait until July, for example, you just scare people more and if it will take consumers 2 months now, for example, to get comfortable then in July it probably takes 3 months and we are well into the fall.
I think the argument is that people who are afraid to work are forced to go back because unemployment will no longer be available. This ignores the fact it was never about an absolute guaranty of safety. There's no such thing.The problem I had with the article is that is talks from a POV that suggests Kemp is forcing people to work that don't want to work. To my knowledge, he has yet to tell any business that they HAVE to open. He's just taking the restraints off and allowing those that want to open safely the opportunity to do so.
I think the argument is that people who are afraid to work are forced to go back because unemployment will no longer be available. This ignores the fact it was never about an absolute guaranty of safety. There's no such thing.
Force majeure rarely if ever excuses rent payment. If there was a covenant to operate then that would be excused by FM but no court (when they reopen) is evicting right now for a failure to operate and there are numerous other elements of FM that are probably still triggered (labor shortage etc).
The fact consumers may not want to shop is not an argument for your ability to prohibit another person from operating their business. They are grown men and women and can make that decision without you. In fact, the reluctance of consumers is more of a reason to open the economy now and allow people to slowly get comfortable with interacting/ shopping etc. if you wait until July, for example, you just scare people more and if it will take consumers 2 months now, for example, to get comfortable then in July it probably takes 3 months and we are well into the fall.
That's true but I expect more from a journalist.@Radi Nabulsi
Laughed at your line "There are false qualifiers and opinions presented as facts" because that is true of most of the things written about the virus on the Chat (where we all knew it was going to be moved). It is what it is.
I may have been to quick to throw the editor under the bus.@Radi Nabulsi I had the same thought you expressed at the end. I've never been in the newspaper business, but have known people and it was common for an editor to write the headline. No idea if true for a publication like the Atlantic. But everyone's going for the "clicks" in media, so that's what we get.
And you would've been good with that, or screeching about government overreach, blah, blah, blah?So, they limited everyone but those people? Or did they just continue as usual? If that was the case they would have prevented everyone but them from using the subway to protect those workers from needless exposure, but they didn't.
This is all on Cuomo. One of many mistakes by Governor party nipples.
Tucker and Sean. The usual morons.Which crackpots have you been reading? Man...
Sounds like she’s condescending to the point that having a different point of view goes right thru her brain. She reminds me of what I call a bat crazy point of view. Loves talking down to her opposition of how she thinks, has a little joy behar in her...has a lot of things built up inside.a scathing article in the Atlantic entitled “Georgia’s Experiment In Human Sacrifice”.
No, I don’t have a clue of how to link it. She talks about bars and other businesses in Athens. I can’t remember which Venter is her father.
I would bet you a month from now Georgia's numbers are not off the charts except I don't trust the cooking of the of the books that might be doneGood for her. Kemp is a moron. Its now common knowledge across the nation.
That's true but I expect more from a journalist.
I may have been to quick to throw the editor under the bus.
Here is a tweet:
This was a despicable way to describe the situation. She seems to have fallen for the notion that the lockdown was going to prevent illness. Or maybe I am confused. But I was told the lockdown would keep us from overwhelming the medical facilities. We accomplished that. Her line about them being overwhelmed in city after city is factually wrong.
That's true but I expect more from a journalist.
I may have been to quick to throw the editor under the bus.
Here is a tweet:
This was a despicable way to describe the situation. She seems to have fallen for the notion that the lockdown was going to prevent illness. Or maybe I am confused. But I was told the lockdown would keep us from overwhelming the medical facilities. We accomplished that. Her line about them being overwhelmed in city after city is factually wrong.
No - not as it relates to margins. But labor shortage is often an element. Point is the operators have little to no practical risk. Matters not to me whether you pretend to believe it not.A labor shortage, or more accurately higher labor costs that low margin businesses can't afford, triggers force majeure? Really? You sure you want to stick with that one? The courts aren't enforcing contracts now because they are closed, and also won't when they are open? Pretty sure you are wrong about all this and just trying to handwave away an issue. But either way, it's speculative for the moment, and I'm not going to argue about it anymore.
What you still fail to grasp, because you insist on turning everyone who disagrees with you into a fanatical nanny stater, is I'm not arguing here for keeping things closed down. I'm assuming we open up, and asking what happens. So repeating "gotta open up" for the 251st time isn't responsive.
I'm just asking for what you plan to do for all the businesses that are screwed after you open up because between a half and a third of us aren't going to "get comfortable" with anything. We're locked out of supporting those businesses, no matter what, very much against our preferences and much to our chagrin. And the answer, apparently, is nothing.
I read this article this morning, and while I completely disagree with her, if I were her parent I would be very proud of her.
No - not as it relates to margins. But labor shortage is often an element. Point is the operators have little to no practical risk. Matters not to me whether you pretend to believe it not.
As for the rest I am sensing you aren’t looking for a reasonable conversation. But you simply must open as soon as possible and weather through the irrational fear that has been built. People will return to life eventually.
Thank you for proving my point. Georgia's numbers and Colorado's numbers are virtually the same (Georgia's are slightly better by every metric on a per capita basis). Yet Governor Kemp is getting ravaged by every media outlet while Governor Polis is getting a free pass because he's a Democrat.
The straw man is pretty weak. You asked about force majeure risk. I told you they have “little to no practical risk”. Now go read your first paragraph again and I am here when you are ready for that apology.Wow. Small businesses have no risk, even in these times, apparently especially in these times. That is some real reasoned analysis right there.
And it's apparent that you really are incapable of anything beyond, open up open up. My last post was, "ASSUME YOU OPEN UP, what happens then given that 40% percent of population can't return to normal, at least until their loved ones are dead?" And your response was "you're unreasonable; you've got to open up." I granted you that we're going to open up, and all you could say was literally "open up."
And I now I am going to open up a cold one.
Haha - it actually would be great if she wanted to talk about her article. Everyone here would have to make a pledge of civility but I would genuinely be curious on some of the thoughts behind her assertions.Y'all are famous now.
That would be nice but this is the free board and you know we have trolls aplenty who would wade inHaha - it actually would be great if she wanted to talk about her article. Everyone here would have to make a pledge of civility but I would genuinely be curious on some of the thoughts behind her assertions.
True, I don’t align with him politically. But, I’ve met him and had a non-political conversation with him. He’s absolutely a moron.Actually that is not common knowledge. That is an opinion by people that do not align with him politically.
I’m imagining she wrote about Georgia because she’s from here, went to school here, still has family, contacts and an interest in the area.Still waiting for her article about Colorado reopening and how they are also experimenting with human sacrifice. I mean they opened everything we did except restaurants. Of course Colorado opened daycares and Georgia didn’t. Funny how I haven’t seen any “articles” about how Gov. Polis is killing people. Wonder why?
True, I don’t align with him politically. But, I’ve met him and had a non-political conversation with him. He’s absolutely a moron.
Now? We were already famous.Y'all are famous now.
Didn’t the Trump administration issue guidelines on when states should reopen? (They did.) Does Georgia meet those guidelines. (It doesn’t.)Fair point, but as you say, there's no guarantee of safety even if they wait til June. At some point, businesses are going to reopen and unemployment is not going to be any option. The timing of it all seems to be the issue the author takes unless she thinks we should stay shut down until a vaccine comes.
That would be nice but this is the free board and you know we have trolls aplenty who would wade in
Jesus - “For weeks, Americans have watched the coronavirus sweep from city to city, overwhelming hospitals, traumatizing health-care workers, and leaving tens of thousands of bodies in makeshift morgues.”
UnderstatmentThe virus is just not that dangerous.
I completely understand how critical the subway and public transit is to NYC. However we have all had to make sacrifices. We have had the sanctimonious lectures about how we might possibly could somehow transmit the virus unbeknownst to ourselves to someone who might could possibly contract the illness and might could possibly die and we just can't do that. So how is NYC able to justify the sacrifice of so many humans using the subway just so "essential" workers can work? Why have I been forced out of my gym where there is far more room and "social distance" than the subway but the subway continues on? You can't have it both ways. Either this virus is the most lethal threat to the continued existence of mankind and is highly contagious especially in tight spaces, then there is absolutely no reason to keep the subway going, or all that social distancing is just a joke on us rubes living in flyover land to inconvenience us but NYC is exempt. The fact the subway is still running tells you how dangerous the virus is.Anybody still arguing about the subway doesn't know anything about New York City. People who live in this city take public transport everywhere. Not that many own cars, because they don't need them.
That means that every essential worker in a city of 9 million still needs the subway to get to work right now. Hospitals, police, firefighters and other essentials can't function if the subway goes down for any length of time.
And there are many fewer trains running right now because of the illness impact on subway employees.
yep. It is absurd and the height of hypocrisy. The entire world must shut down but we can't find essential workers alternative means of transportation to work?Understatment
I completely understand how critical the subway and public transit is to NYC. However we have all had to make sacrifices. We have had the sanctimonious lectures about how we might possibly could somehow transmit the virus unbeknownst to ourselves to someone who might could possibly contract the illness and might could possibly die and we just can't do that. So how is NYC able to justify the sacrifice of so many humans using the subway just so "essential" workers can work? Why have I been forced out of my gym where there is far more room and "social distance" than the subway but the subway continues on? You can't have it both ways. Either this virus is the most lethal threat to the continued existence of mankind and is highly contagious especially in tight spaces, then there is absolutely no reason to keep the subway going, or all that social distancing is just a joke on us rubes living in flyover land to inconvenience us but NYC is exempt. The fact the subway is still running tells you how dangerous the virus is.
NahAgree to disagree.
Without commenting on the content of the article, I’d think her parents would be proud of her talent as a writer, as well as her success in an industry that’s increasingly competitive and unappreciated.
LOL!Very well done and thought provoking piece - some here have never been able to live with hearing or reading an opinion they disagree with and thus will want to stone her for it, but she’s obv very talented and her family should be very proud. @realkosher’s family however - thats another story.