kudos to Speaker Johnson for doing the right thing and standing by our allies.
Slava Ukraini!
- Thread starter nice marmot
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I've yet to hear a rational reason from those opposed to the aid package why it benefits the US if Russia took over Ukraine.
Not our country, not our ally, not our problem
The cult can rest easy. The Donald has given his blessing to this
What’s so weird is that, when the invasion first happened, every single conservative on this board was correctly saying that they want the Russian communists to lose, although it seemed unlikely. As the years have gone by a loss for Ukraine seems more and more unlikely, which is a good thing, and yet somehow our conservatives think it’s a good idea for the communist Russians to win.
If you are an American man, you know you want communism to fail in all areas. They are diametrically opposed to our success, and have killed many of our people.
Rooting for the communist Russians to win makes you my personal enemy.
Being indifferent to whether or not they win is damn close to that. I can always tell how much social media person ingests by how badly they want the communist Russians to lose or not.
I remember the good old days when conservatives realized Russia was our enemy. Not so much anymore.
I think it isn’t about conservatives loving russia. For goodness sakes, Dems plans for socialism are much more like Russia. Maybe some are taking their side. Who knows.
Most conservatives I know realize we have huge problems here. I understand most think Russia doesn’t stop at the Ukraine. I get that part of the equation. Even though no one in the intelligence community says this will happen. And even Putin says he doesn’t want that.
Thing is. The Ukraine is not an ally. It is a corrupt cesspool of a place. They still didn’t deserve to be attacked.
We have enormous freaking problems here that will take money to fix. If no one has noticed we are spending money like a drunk sorority girl with her daddy’s platinum card. We will need some to fix our own problems here in our country.
Most importantly, even Joe has changed gears. He knows this war can only end with negotiations. It isn’t ending with someone winning. And if it does, it will be Russia and that will be a disaster. God knows what they will do if desperate enough.
When is enough going to be enough. Most conservatives on this board, and whom I know say that.(how much will we give Ukraine) Joe has also changed his tune. Very important to listen to his recent words. They have changed from whatever it takes to whatever we can.
I think the one that wildly pissed me and others off. Was the package Biden loved, that put some extra money in the pockets of Ukrainians. Because they need some money in their pockets. While we have a huge homeless issue right here, and are suffering from massive inflation
Most conservatives I know realize we have huge problems here. I understand most think Russia doesn’t stop at the Ukraine. I get that part of the equation. Even though no one in the intelligence community says this will happen. And even Putin says he doesn’t want that.
Thing is. The Ukraine is not an ally. It is a corrupt cesspool of a place. They still didn’t deserve to be attacked.
We have enormous freaking problems here that will take money to fix. If no one has noticed we are spending money like a drunk sorority girl with her daddy’s platinum card. We will need some to fix our own problems here in our country.
Most importantly, even Joe has changed gears. He knows this war can only end with negotiations. It isn’t ending with someone winning. And if it does, it will be Russia and that will be a disaster. God knows what they will do if desperate enough.
When is enough going to be enough. Most conservatives on this board, and whom I know say that.(how much will we give Ukraine) Joe has also changed his tune. Very important to listen to his recent words. They have changed from whatever it takes to whatever we can.
I think the one that wildly pissed me and others off. Was the package Biden loved, that put some extra money in the pockets of Ukrainians. Because they need some money in their pockets. While we have a huge homeless issue right here, and are suffering from massive inflation
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That doesn't explain why Russia taking over Ukraine is in our best interst
What could happen if Russia wins war in Ukraine? Experts consider the scenarios
The Institute for the Study of War thinktank says the costs of allowing Russia to win in Ukraine are "higher than most people imagine", as US resolve - particularly among Republicans - possibly wavers over providing more military aid to Kyiv.
news.sky.com
There are many sounding the alarm of how a Russia win in Ukraine will bring NATO and Russia closer to war.What could happen if Russia wins war in Ukraine? Experts consider the scenarios
The Institute for the Study of War thinktank says the costs of allowing Russia to win in Ukraine are "higher than most people imagine", as US resolve - particularly among Republicans - possibly wavers over providing more military aid to Kyiv.
Trump's gunna get about 90,000,000 votes this November. That's pretty fair sized for a cult. It's a bit less than honest to try to belittle such a group. You are lying to yourself. You just don't like the truth of the matter.
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... $26 billion for Israel, including $9.1 billion for humanitarian needs,
That is the only problem I have with that bill.
They are going to give palestinians a shitload of cash and it will likely go to terrorist organizations either directly or laundered, mostly to hamas. At least, that is what has happened to aid for them in the past.
What does Ukraine victory look like vs Russia? IMO the only path to this is direct US engagement with Russian forces in a peer to peer war which could likely evolve into WW3.
That should be in no one's best interest; not even the military industrial complex running our country
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The majority of that hypothetical 90 million would be voting for Trump because they believe the alternative is worse not because they're part of the Maga cult.
This. I'm def not a Trumper but I will vote for him over any Dem nom this fall including Biden because the alternatives are all terrible imo for the future of this nation
No, what’s really weird is that people think we can just throw more money(that we don’t have) at a problem and it will solve it. This will not solve it. What’s weird is the Democrat leaders have made zero attempts at a diplomatic solution to this war. What’s weird is they have gone after Russian oil which has driven the world price up which is giving the Russians a flood of money to continue their war and pushed the Chinese closer to Russia.
What’s weird is within the 6 months they will need more money and our Southern border will still be open.
What’s weird is people will still struggle to pay for groceries, lose their jobs to imported cheap unskilled labor and they will be paying to prolong a war that could have been ended long ago, but people at Raytheon want their bonus.
Where have we heard that before?
I was stationed in West Germany when there was a wall. Letting Putin put the band back together is most definitely a long term problem. Should the Euro's invest more in their own defense, sure, but turning our back on hard won gains after the collapse of the Soviet Union is a fools errand. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away. It didn't work in WWII and it won't work now. If Putin wants Ukraine then play the long game and bleed him dry for every inch. They won't be able to sustain their losses over the long haul.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee
Victory is a stalemate right now with Ukraine holding current territory and Russia annexing the two breakaway regions. It can not be direct communication between the US and Russia without the Ukrainians leading the way.
Two points 1) Ukraine was invade by Russia who has committed numerous war crimes and kidnapped thousands of Ukrainian children...the US is only given them the means to prevent a massacre...when did the GOP decide that was a bad thing. 2) you could of had a deal that bad the boarder stronger and now there's no way to get any of the measures in place anytime soon in the near future.
The article says what could happen. No credible intelligence reports. Like you quoted in my op. Really? What could happen?What could happen if Russia wins war in Ukraine? Experts consider the scenarios
The Institute for the Study of War thinktank says the costs of allowing Russia to win in Ukraine are "higher than most people imagine", as US resolve - particularly among Republicans - possibly wavers over providing more military aid to Kyiv.
Where I am with it....Russia can get this thing over with any time they want, it's a slow bleed for the US.
Ukraine wanted to negotiate right away as did Putin but the US wouldn't allow it, we wanted to bleed Russia dry which is why we are all here today
I don’t consider myself a conservative per se, mainly bc I don’t always agree with everything either side says. I generally lean a click or so Left on many social issues and a click or so Right on economic, Constitutional and military matters. But I think you’re wrong. Anyone who thinks Russia will lose a war to Ukraine is crazy. And as a matter of fact, when the war first broke out, I didn’t care. Ukraine is full of Nazis. Go look up one of my first posts and you’ll see I was pulling for them both to lose. If I recall correctly, I compared it to game between UTk and UF.
You must not pay attention to history if you think Russia has a limited capacity for suffering both in its military & homefront
Generally speaking, the people like yourself who claim that Russia will never lose a war in Ukraine are the same people who said Russia will quickly overwhelm Ukraine and make quick work of their invasion. Of course it didn’t work out that way at all
The Black Sea fleet has be decimated.
Russia has lost a very large number of senior military leaders, who are not easily replaced, particularly given the requirement for the Putin loyalty test.
The Russian lack of NCO’s in their military structure means losses are even more difficult to replace.
Russia has been forced to utilize large numbers of criminals to replace depleted ranks, which is generally not a recipe for battlefield success.
Advanced tech is a huge force multiplier for Ukraine, and it is always easier to defend territory than to take it.
I could go on, but the predictions of a coming Ukraine collapse have all been wrong, including during the last six months when GOP dithering contributed to a critical depletion in arms and ammunition that will shortly be addressed.
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You have to be pretty unskilled to think the southern border issue is stealing your job unless you aspire to be a migrant crop worker, office cleaner, or landscaper. You can't get a house built in metro Atlanta without a crew of immigrant labor and I have no idea if they're here legally or not. What I do see is that they work pretty damn hard and are generally friendly. You want to see prices go up at the grocery store, then throw them all out of the country and try to find American citizens who will work at that wage rate to pick tomatoes. These folks actually keep prices down.
You want to know where your job went, it got offshored years ago to cheap labor in all areas of manufacturing and skilled IT workers in India along with H1B visas in the US. You ought to be more concerned about AI and robotics replacing a lot of traditional blue collar jobs than a bunch of migrants. I don't have an answer for what those people are going to do. I developed software for years. If you're any good at all it's a decent six figure job. I can use AI tooling today to reduce coding time from hours to minutes and it's very accurate to the point that I don't know if I'd recommend it as a vocation for anyone getting started in the field. At the very least it's going to change the way developers in the future do their jobs.
California enacted a $20 an hour minimum wage (there's your inflation) and I understand it's impossibly expensive to live in California. But the consequence is raising consumer prices for items like fast foot, reducing employment and hours, and probably more automation that doesn't require people.
The southern border is an issue for security reasons and it causes a crisis in housing and health care. I don't like it one bit but if these folks want to come into the country legally and work the jobs that nobody else wants then I have no problem. Solve that issue but blaming job loss and inflation on the border issue is just a bunch of populist rhetoric with no foundation. Kind of like blaming the Jews in Germany for their problems after WWI.
I guess it is safe to assume your entire retirement is invested in General Dynamics?
We all know the border was closed. We all know the Democrats opened it through executives orders. The bill proposed was Kabuki theatre. The intent was to have Pubs vote against it for political gain and sound bites. Which apparently worked on their Chat audience. They didn’t need the money to close the border. All of that money would have just funded more welcome centers, Obama phones and debit cards.
But, you know all that.
When is the last significant battle Ukraine has won decisively vs Russia? Oct 2022?
I bought into the whole GWOT thing. I signed my life away for 5 years. Name the last country aside from South Korea where the residents of the occupied nation was better off than before us world police got involved? It would tough to name many.
US involving themselves in other countries's affairs rarely works out great. It usually makes it worse
US involving themselves in other countries's affairs rarely works out great. It usually makes it worse
Thanks for saving me the time. This covers most of it for me. Also, Ukraine does not have the men it needs to keep fighting. They cannot win and prolonging the war only leads to more death and destruction. The US war machine is all about money and power and not about doing what is right. Pumping money into Ukraine is manly to give money to their elite who funnel some back to our politicians (Reps and Dims). It also provides our Defense contractors billions and then companies like Black Rock hiundreds of billions to come in and rebuild. When was the last war we actually won where the country we were fighting for actually appreciated what we had done for them?
All intelligence is "could" happen mostly. When it gets to "will happen" it's normally too late and 💩 has hit the fan. But western analyst have repeatedly said Putins ultimate goal is to bring former Soviet Union countries back underneath its sphere of control. Remember Putin also said he didn't want to invade Ukraine and that it was all American propaganda
Putin didn't want to negotiate he made demands several that were non-starts:
1) NATO would freeze expansion and not allow anymore members states.
2) NATO return to 1997
Here you go, from the UN Office on Human Rights. This was in September of 2022 so Russia starter committing human rights violations pretty early in their invasion.
"The Commission has documented violations, such as the illegal use of explosive weapons, indiscriminate attacks, violations of personal integrity, including executions, torture and ill-treatment, and sexual and gender-based violence. It also found that the rights of children have been violated."
When all mainstream media, all democratic leadership, & half of Republicans in office all echo the same taking points, I've learned in recent years to be highly skeptical of what they are trying to to sell us on....especially when Lockheed Martin, GD, & Beoing are raking in all that sweet sweet blood money
