So rhetoric lies have consequence

[cherrydawg]

If the Dems feel they were jobbed by Dem leadership on the transition from Biden to Harris, they won’t vote for her. You should be overjoyed about the situation.

Learn what the word communism means. You misuse it nearly every day.

Regarding your candidate, he continues to incite threats of violence through his rhetoric. No national Dem has said anything close to what he says regularly. Lies about fraud. Lies about Hatians.

He is also suffering from age-related mental deterioration.

Here is his verbatim response when asked yesterday what he would do to bring down the price of groceries. It’s addled nonsense. He can’t complete a thought or in many cases a sentence, and you and the other Trumpers on here just refuse to acknowledge the obvious.

Trump is going to lose, and he is going to negatively impact the down-ballot races. November is going to be tough for the GOP and it’s entirely their own fault because Trump owns the party and cares only about one thing. Himself.

@zingerdawg and @Moosefish, I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on Trump’s comments below. We acknowledged Biden’s deterioration. Can you do the same?

From yesterday’s town hall:
“So we have to start always with energy. Always. I don't want to be boring about it but there's no bigger subject. It covers everything. If you make donuts, if you make cars, whatever you make, energy's a big deal. And we're gonna get that — it's my ambition to get your energy bill within 12 months down 50%. If I can do that we've done a hell of a job. 5-0. Not 15, 50. Interest rates are going to follow. And actually they're going to follow for another reason. The economy is now not good. And interest rates — you'll see, they'll do the rate cut and all the political stuff tomorrow. Will he do half a point, will he do a quarter of a point. But the reason is because the economy's not good. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to do it. But we're gonna get interest rates down. And we gotta work with our farmers. Our farmers are being decimated right now. They're being absolutely, absolutely decimated. And one of the reasons is we allow a lot of farm product into our country. We're gonna have to be a little bit like other countries. We're not gonna allow so much come — we're gonna let our farmers go to work. And I don't know if you remember. I love the farmers. Because I had many meetings as president. I had this gorgeous room with this beautiful table that seats about 35 people. And I was with the farmers. Usually everybody wants something. They all want subsidy. But I was with the farmers. And I think you might've been there actually Sarah. I said look, we're gonna get you such a beautiful subsidy, meaning I'm gonna do things. And one of the people raised his hand, 'Sir, honestly, we don't want a subsidy. That's the first time that's ever happened to me! Everyone wants — they want money, they want to build windmills, we want money for these windmills, ay-yai-yai. Anyway. But you know what? It was amazing. He said, almost tears in his eyes, they were getting decimated. 'We don't want a subsidy. We just want a fair level playing field! And I said nobody's ever said that. And I have many industries, they do all different things. It's probably the most dramatic l've ever seen. He didn't want anything. All he wanted was to be able to compete fairly. And the problem we have is other countries, they treat us very badly in that way, also. They really are. And sometimes the worst countries are our so-called allies. I say so-called because in many ways they're not allies at all. They take advantage of us. They really take advantage. But we're gonna do with the farmers, we're gonna do what we have to do with the farmers, we're gonna put our farmers - and do you remember the expression? When I was negotiating with China, China said well we're not gonna deal with this. Because they never had anybody to negotiate. They did whatever they want. They just took us, like, for a bunch of suckers. But I told the farmers it's gonna be very good negotiators, you're gonna suffer for six months and then they're gonna fold. And that's exactly what happened... So interest rates, energy and common sense.”

BULL CRAP POST BY YOU. National dims, INCLUDING those in the media call for '"Stopping Trump" all the time. You must live in cave at the bottom of a bottomless pit. I posted a quote from the minority leader the same day of the 2nd attempt. Killary, the same day. The media the same day. YOU sir are just repeating MSNBC talking points. They blame trump too. That will fly with your radical party but not with non tds suffering independents or pubs. You are just in fact WRONG.

She is a communist, Just because you are blinded by tds and can't see it doesn't make it not so. She was raised by communist, she with her own nasty mouth said that she is in favor of forcefully entering homes to do gun checks.... the video is out there, you find it,,, I'm not helping you because you need to figure out how to find the truth yourself. Price controls, communist. Try again on which of us need to learn what communism is. Maybe you are one and don't realize it. You do support the censoring of free speech the dims are wholeheartedly a part of. You don't give a rat's butt about honesty from your pols, only trump. You don't give a rat's butt about an honest media. You use their lies every day.

Your first statement is a doozy... So, if voters don't care if their vote is cancelled that makes it A OK.. You are making excuses to cover for the fact that your side cries and whines like someone stole your pacifier about Trump being a threat to democracy. You cannot say that the way that whole thing was handled was anything but a slap in the face to democracy. Dims are just so hypocritical it makes me throw up to see the two-sided way y'all view everything. Always, and I mean ALWAYS blaming others for the things you are in fact actually guilty of. SICKENING and PATHETIC

 

[jlstone412]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/02/13/hunter-biden-laptop-claims-russian-disinfo/

Here is the exact statement word for word in the debate. It was written ambiguously by the cia on purpose. But not used like this for public consumption by the current potus. I am sure you will deny his direct quote where he answers yes to it being Russian disinformation. That is what we were told. Exact words from joe. Oh and really?

I'm taking the letter as it was written. Nowhere in the letter did they say it was Russian disinfo. Read the letter.

Joe initially characterized it correctly:

JOE BIDEN: “Look, there are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what he’s accusing me of is a Russian plan. They have said that this has all the characteristics — four, five former heads of the CIA, both parties, say what he’s saying is a bunch of garbage. Nobody believes it except him and his good friend Rudy Giuliani.”


Now...I will meet you in the middle in that Joe embellished in the debate further when he did say it was "Russian disinfo". But that letter said nothing of the sort. And Joe was wrong here and I have no issue calling him out.

Joe's characterization in the debate does not change the elements of the statement signed by 51 former intelligence officers: "all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation".

 

[cherrydawg]

False. We would have more moderate justices because pubs would've had Senate still and need their approval to get confined. It would've been the best scenario in my opinion. Justices should be moderate. The current construct is anything but moderate, and that goes for all 9.

Trump's should've only gotten 1, at most 2. McConnell rigged the rules for trump to get 3.

Moderate..... yeah right... LMBO

She just yesterday said that people should be thrown in jail for spreading misinformation.... Not very moderate because she is a loony lib.
Also a hypocrite like your whole party. She is the one that bought, paid for and distributed the pee dossier.... LOL she thinks she is above the law she wants implemented. SMH How you dims come up with some of these crazy thoughts you have.

 

[willdup]

I'm taking the letter as it was written. Nowhere in the letter did they say it was Russian disinfo. Read the letter.

Joe initially characterized it correctly:

JOE BIDEN: “Look, there are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what he’s accusing me of is a Russian plan. They have said that this has all the characteristics — four, five former heads of the CIA, both parties, say what he’s saying is a bunch of garbage. Nobody believes it except him and his good friend Rudy Giuliani.”


Now...I will meet you in the middle in that Joe embellished in the debate further when he did say it was "Russian disinfo". But that letter said nothing of the sort. And Joe was wrong here and I have no issue calling him out.

Joe's characterization in the debate does not change the elements of the statement signed by 51 former intelligence officers: "all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation".

They also said very clearly that they had NOT examined the laptop or any other evidence and as such could not know. They said it had the characteristics and that we knew that Russia had in other instances interfered in our elections.

 

[jlstone412]

Moderate..... yeah right... LMBO

She just yesterday said that people should be thrown in jail for spreading misinformation.... Not very moderate because she is a loony lib.
Also a hypocrite like your whole party. She is the one that bought, paid for and distributed the pee dossier.... LOL she thinks she is above the law she wants implemented. SMH How you dims come up with some of these crazy thoughts you have.

man...youre missing the point.

Math + politics 101 tells you that she would have had to appoint moderate justices to the bench because Senate republicans WILL NOT confirm a liberal justice... So the assertion that she would have packed the court with liberal justices is just stupid.

 

[cherrydawg]

I was raised Episcopalian and believe in the teachings of Christ. I don't currently attend church and as you have probably inferred from my other posts, I have significant issues with many of those who currently promote themselves as being Christians while supporting DJT.


I'm not angry. I just find the suggestion that ABC and Harris cheated and somehow forced Trump into his horrid performance, absurd on its face. BTW, ABC has addressed the charges, and we are still waiting on the appearance of the whistleblower. There were plenty of affidavits about election fraud too and they all turned out to be total BS.

Is your question, why is Harris worthy of support when she was the worst VP ever? If so, I didn't answer because that's not really a question. I'm not going to respond to your subjective view on the job that Harris did as VP as if it is fact. You can say she was unpopular for much of her term as VP, to which I respond I don't care, what's her favorability rating now (she is still VP) and as people vote.

I think Trump was by far the worst president in modern history, and the only POTUS with worse polling on the day they left office (which was when the poll I keep referencing was taken) was the guy forced to resign at threat of impeachment. But I'm certainly not going to demand you answer the question of why you support the worst, second most unpopular POTUS of the last one hundred years as if this is some statement of fact. It's what I believe, but it's not fact.

I am going to ask you, as I have so many times before, how you can support the only president in our history who tried to use lies and a violent mob to stay in office, as that is a far less subjective position for me to take. I understand that you don't agree, at least about the violence, but I have an extremely detailed federal indictment and multiple state indictments to back up my view. That's a lot more substantive than polling.

I think we have plenty of evidence that Trump is a malignant narcissist who will continue to erode the underpinnings of our representational republic. I also think he is showing very clear age-related deterioration that should be obvious to the same people who were so concerned about Biden. I owned up to the fact I was wrong about Biden and made it clear the Dem party needed to make a change. The GOP is clearly Ride or Die with Trump, regardless of how crazy his angry ramblings become, and I can promise you they are going to get worse.

The only part of this incredible post I want to discuss with you is the very first thing you said about having a problem with Christians supporting Trump.

Show me where kamala and timmy are any better? They are not perfect. We know the willie brown story, we know the support of abortion at any time by kamala, we know the support of the lgqbtxyz movement by both. I personally believe murdering a baby at any time other than a life of the mother choice is murder. But some of you dims have started saying its ok up until a certain point then no. She, and I have posted her words here, thinks its just hunky dory up until the point of birth and has refused to say differently. She is a liar. Timmy is a huge liar.

Do you believe the teachings of Christ?

1 Cor 6:9-10
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

I am not trying to say that trump is a Christian and non sinner. But neither are the 2 you support. Here is the difference. Your party, kamala and timmy, want to normalize things that will send ones soul to hell. Not only normalize it, but force Christians to be accepting of it. Gotta bake a cake, gotta teach it as normal to children etc etc etc. Therefore, supporting the dim candidate, (if supporting a candidate is anti Christian) would be much more grievous than supporting Trump. At least trump isn't for any time abortion, or for forcing the sin of homosexuality as being normal and teaching it to kids etc. Homosexuals, can do what they want if they don't care what God thinks, they just need to do it in their bedroom.

 

[cherrydawg]

I'm taking the letter as it was written. Nowhere in the letter did they say it was Russian disinfo. Read the letter.

Joe initially characterized it correctly:

JOE BIDEN: “Look, there are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what he’s accusing me of is a Russian plan. They have said that this has all the characteristics — four, five former heads of the CIA, both parties, say what he’s saying is a bunch of garbage. Nobody believes it except him and his good friend Rudy Giuliani.”


Now...I will meet you in the middle in that Joe embellished in the debate further when he did say it was "Russian disinfo". But that letter said nothing of the sort. And Joe was wrong here and I have no issue calling him out.

Joe's characterization in the debate does not change the elements of the statement signed by 51 former intelligence officers: "all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation".

so you are willing to meet in the middle if he will admit to being fooled by the lying former heads so you aren't the only one. LOL

 

[cherrydawg]

man...youre missing the point.

Math + politics 101 tells you that she would have had to appoint moderate justices to the bench because Senate republicans WILL NOT confirm a liberal justice... So the assertion that she would have packed the court with liberal justices is just stupid.

yeah right,,,, soto my ear and jackson are real moderates. I think you listen to what left wing talking heads say and don't really know much about politics. The dims are the ones that put on shows, like what they did to Kavenaugh, trying to keep people out. pubs are lilly livered and rarely put up a fight.

 

[jlstone412]

so you are willing to meet in the middle if he will admit to being fooled by the lying former heads so you aren't the only one. LOL

I think you have reading comprehension problem. I'm literally meeting him in the middle that Joe was wrong in what he said. The intelligence officials didn't fool anyone except for those that literally can't read the letter. That's their problem....not mine.

yeah right,,,, soto my ear and jackson are real moderates. I think you listen to what left wing talking heads say and don't really know much about politics. The dims are the ones that put on shows, like what they did to Kavenaugh, trying to keep people out. pubs are lilly livered and rarely put up a fight.

Except that one time that McConnell putnon a show and held up confirmation hearing for hundreds of days in 2016....you know....to keep someone out and get a partisan judge appointed.

 

[zingerdawg]

I'm taking the letter as it was written. Nowhere in the letter did they say it was Russian disinfo. Read the letter.

Joe initially characterized it correctly:

JOE BIDEN: “Look, there are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what he’s accusing me of is a Russian plan. They have said that this has all the characteristics — four, five former heads of the CIA, both parties, say what he’s saying is a bunch of garbage. Nobody believes it except him and his good friend Rudy Giuliani.”


Now...I will meet you in the middle in that Joe embellished in the debate further when he did say it was "Russian disinfo". But that letter said nothing of the sort. And Joe was wrong here and I have no issue calling him out.

Joe's characterization in the debate does not change the elements of the statement signed by 51 former intelligence officers: "all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation".

This is total semantics brother. Come on. They have also admitted how they wrote it was to be slightly ambiguous. You know this. One agent even bragged about it. I can play you 100 different reporters saying it was Russian disinformation. It became a drinking game for gop folks it was so laughable and mentioned so often

 

[zingerdawg]

I was raised Episcopalian and believe in the teachings of Christ. I don't currently attend church and as you have probably inferred from my other posts, I have significant issues with many of those who currently promote themselves as being Christians while supporting DJT.


I'm not angry. I just find the suggestion that ABC and Harris cheated and somehow forced Trump into his horrid performance, absurd on its face. BTW, ABC has addressed the charges, and we are still waiting on the appearance of the whistleblower. There were plenty of affidavits about election fraud too and they all turned out to be total BS.

Is your question, why is Harris worthy of support when she was the worst VP ever? If so, I didn't answer because that's not really a question. I'm not going to respond to your subjective view on the job that Harris did as VP as if it is fact. You can say she was unpopular for much of her term as VP, to which I respond I don't care, what's her favorability rating now (she is still VP) and as people vote.

I think Trump was by far the worst president in modern history, and the only POTUS with worse polling on the day they left office (which was when the poll I keep referencing was taken) was the guy forced to resign at threat of impeachment. But I'm certainly not going to demand you answer the question of why you support the worst, second most unpopular POTUS of the last one hundred years as if this is some statement of fact. It's what I believe, but it's not fact.

I am going to ask you, as I have so many times before, how you can support the only president in our history who tried to use lies and a violent mob to stay in office, as that is a far less subjective position for me to take. I understand that you don't agree, at least about the violence, but I have an extremely detailed federal indictment and multiple state indictments to back up my view. That's a lot more substantive than polling.

I think we have plenty of evidence that Trump is a malignant narcissist who will continue to erode the underpinnings of our representational republic. I also think he is showing very clear age-related deterioration that should be obvious to the same people who were so concerned about Biden. I owned up to the fact I was wrong about Biden and made it clear the Dem party needed to make a change. The GOP is clearly Ride or Die with Trump, regardless of how crazy his angry ramblings become, and I can promise you they are going to get worse.

EDIT: I'm so confused. Did Trump lose the debate because of cheating (still haven't seen anyone detail what that means when both candidates should have absolutely known what topics were going to be covered), or did Trump actually time-delay a win of the debate? BTW, the pundit Trump references is Hannity, but "everyone" thinks he won?

View embedded media

Easy. He did a good job while president. I had about 1700 dollars a month more in my pocket. That is how much my monthly bills have gone up since Joe took office. I also paid way less in taxes. Substantially less. I haven’t even done the math on my family of six monthly bills in the last four months. I am sure it is worse now. I don’t care about excuses will. You will do plenty of mental gymnastics. Trump said he would do this for the middle class. And he did. Biden said he wouldn’t raise taxes on folks making under 400k. He did by changing the tax bracket numbers. He was in charge the last four years and he turned the country into an unmitigated clusterf.

These guys are a colossal trainwreck. I don’t know how it can be defended. Plus the democracy argument went away when you guys basically had your own insurrection and coup. You know, what an actual one usually looks like. With real threats to someone’s livelihood and family. Not some band of dipshits with signs who got out of hand at a rally.

 

[celticdawg]

I appreciate the response. Point is I am giving a little that he is 77 years old and may be slowing down Celtic. You guys never gave an inch until his smooth brain was laid to rest in front of you.

Your last paragraph is interesting my friend. We will see who wins. You could certainly be right. That being said you can’t accuse Trump and Vance of false statements without recognizing ads running right now that are not even remotely truthful. They are misleading. And full of viewpoints never associated with her till now. She told 25 lies during the debate. You can’t glaze over that after accusing the other side of the same. 51 cia agents changed the last election. A president who in all likelihood sold out his country. They probably decided to fight fire with fire sadly. They have no choice. Amazing how much you don’t like the same thing done to you.

This is not the first election that it seems like every ad is negative. And it's not just the Presidential ads. Actually, we don't (thankfully) have ads for President on TV (I'm sure we'll see some) though I've seen some online. But the three most important votes after that are for Senator and Amendments 3 and 4 and they are all basically negative.

I most certainly can accuse Trump of false statements without regard to ads that are less than truthful or misleading. A false statement is a false statement. Actually you won't see me pointing it out over and over again because it serves no point (a new lie is something else). I understand viewpoints different from past statements or actions. That's like saying you can't change your mind. Actually both candidates have been light on what they will do. I don't think Kamala will do everything she did in the past or everything she says she wants to do; we'll have to see. I see Trump supporters here glazing over, as you say, about what Trump has done. Are you really going to argue about whether she was middle-class? I trust no one is making their choice over that. But more importantly Trump did basically incite January 6th. It doesn't happen without him and during the course of that afternoon he did nothing for hours.

51 CIA agents changed the last election. A President who in all likelihood sold out his country. I'm not going to defend Biden, but that's still two statements without any proof, so what is their place in this discussion? It might be reason to not vote for Biden, but it's not going to effect Kamala's performance as President.

 

[willdup]

The only part of this incredible post I want to discuss with you is the very first thing you said about having a problem with Christians supporting Trump.

Show me where kamala and timmy are any better? They are not perfect. We know the willie brown story, we know the support of abortion at any time by kamala, we know the support of the lgqbtxyz movement by both. I personally believe murdering a baby at any time other than a life of the mother choice is murder. But some of you dims have started saying its ok up until a certain point then no. She, and I have posted her words here, thinks its just hunky dory up until the point of birth and has refused to say differently. She is a liar. Timmy is a huge liar.

Do you believe the teachings of Christ?

1 Cor 6:9-10
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

I am not trying to say that trump is a Christian and non sinner. But neither are the 2 you support. Here is the difference. Your party, kamala and timmy, want to normalize things that will send ones soul to hell. Not only normalize it, but force Christians to be accepting of it. Gotta bake a cake, gotta teach it as normal to children etc etc etc. Therefore, supporting the dim candidate, (if supporting a candidate is anti Christian) would be much more grievous than supporting Trump. At least trump isn't for any time abortion, or for forcing the sin of homosexuality as being normal and teaching it to kids etc. Homosexuals, can do what they want if they don't care what God thinks, they just need to do it in their bedroom.

I should have clarified. I take issue with Christians who enthusiastically support Trump and suggest that Trump holds the moral high ground. I understand that Trump is the candidate who will push the anti-abortion agenda and that this is reason enough.

But he is just an awful human being who very clearly does not live his life in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, while shamelessly claiming he does just so he can get the votes.

Mocking the attack on an old man for laughs is disgusting and he does that and similar all the time.


His son.



And this is the kind of religious hypocrisy that sickens me. Trump plays along for the praise and the votes.

 

[willdup]

Easy. He did a good job while president. I had about 1700 dollars a month more in my pocket. That is how much my monthly bills have gone up since Joe took office. I also paid way less in taxes. Substantially more. I haven’t even done the math on my family of six monthly bills in the last four months. I am sure it is worse now. I don’t care about excuses will. You will do plenty of mental gymnastics. Trump said he would do this for the middle class. And he did. Biden said he wouldn’t raise taxes on folks making under 400k. He did by changing the tax bracket numbers. He was in charge the last four years and he turned the country into an unmitigated clusterf.

These guys are a colossal trainwreck. I don’t know how it can be defended. Plus the democracy argument went away when you guys basically had your own insurrection and coup. You know, what an actual one usually looks like. With real threats to someone’s livelihood and family. Not some band of dipshits with signs who got out of hand at a rally.

It’s a different world and comparing what happened during Trump’s term, when he inherited economic tailwinds, to Biden, who inherited a once in a century pandemic and unprecedented global economic chaos, is comparing two entirely different things.

But even if we ignore the obvious differences in the macro/external economic environment each faced, you are saying reinstalling the guy who tried to steal the presidency and, with the new magic immunity conferred by SCOTUS will be even less constrained, is worth about $1700 per month.

I think, were Trump reelected, you might find the true cost worth a lot more than the extra $1700 per month. You just wouldn’t know it until it was too late.

I don’t think it’s going to matter as Trump is going to continue to self-immolate. I’d be willing to wager that he’s going to lose, and I’d be willing to wager that when he does we will see violence again. It will be the last gasps of the MAGA movement. Then maybe we can finally get back to having two relatively competent parties again.

 

[jlstone412]

This is total semantics brother. Come on. They have also admitted how they wrote it was to be slightly ambiguous. You know this. One agent even bragged about it. I can play you 100 different reporters saying it was Russian disinformation. It became a drinking game for gop folks it was so laughable and mentioned so often

At the end of the day, the signed letter doesn't say anything confirming Russian disinformation. Regardless of what Biden and the media says (they were both wrong in their characterization of the letter btw). The letter stands on its own. The initial draft said "feels like" and they changed it to "has the earmarks of". Even the drafts didn't say it was Russian disinfo. it was more of a "hey...in our combined experience, this feels fishy...be careful" letter.

So...to say 51 former intelligence officers signed a letter claiming the Biden laptop was Russian disinfo is blatantly false. The letter doesn't support that at all.

 

[zingerdawg]

It’s a different world and comparing what happened during Trump’s term, when he inherited economic tailwinds, to Biden, who inherited a once in a century pandemic and unprecedented global economic chaos, is comparing two entirely different things.

But even if we ignore the obvious differences in the macro/external economic environment each faced, you are saying reinstalling the guy who tried to steal the presidency and, with the new magic immunity conferred by SCOTUS will be even less constrained, is worth about $1700 per month.

I think, were Trump reelected, you might find the true cost worth a lot more than the extra $1700 per month. You just wouldn’t know it until it was too late.

I don’t think it’s going to matter as Trump is going to continue to self-immolate. I’d be willing to wager that he’s going to lose, and I’d be willing to wager that when he does we will see violence again. It will be the last gasps of the MAGA movement. Then maybe we can finally get back to having two relatively competent parties again.

The last paragraph I agree with and I don’t agree with. He has been shot at. Put on trial for horseshit. They basically stole 300 million plus from him. No one has done anything. I don’t think there will be violence. Much more likely more democrats get in line to keep him from the finish line. It is a daily occurrence now. Just happened again and you are worried about maga violence. You have to admit that is a bit reachy on your part. I will not miss him if he loses. That I can agree with. Sadly we will be stuck with another paper president who will be the laughingstock in the entire world in the process. Who cares. Orangeman is a bad person right?

 

[zingerdawg]

At the end of the day, the signed letter doesn't say anything confirming Russian disinformation. Regardless of what Biden and the media says (they were both wrong in their characterization of the letter btw). The letter stands on its own. The initial draft said "feels like" and they changed it to "has the earmarks of". Even the drafts didn't say it was Russian disinfo. it was more of a "hey...in our combined experience, this feels fishy...be careful" letter.

So...to say 51 former intelligence officers signed a letter claiming the Biden laptop was Russian disinfo is blatantly false. The letter doesn't support that at all.

It was used that way. Even the director admitted it was written for political purposes. This is an insane hill to die on. They said it feels like or has the earmarks. lol. Are you reading what you are writing. If you believe that you will truly believe anything. It served its purpose and interfered with an election. Period. That is what it did.

 

[zingerdawg]

This is not the first election that it seems like every ad is negative. And it's not just the Presidential ads. Actually, we don't (thankfully) have ads for President on TV (I'm sure we'll see some) though I've seen some online. But the three most important votes after that are for Senator and Amendments 3 and 4 and they are all basically negative.

I most certainly can accuse Trump of false statements without regard to ads that are less than truthful or misleading. A false statement is a false statement. Actually you won't see me pointing it out over and over again because it serves no point (a new lie is something else). I understand viewpoints different from past statements or actions. That's like saying you can't change your mind. Actually both candidates have been light on what they will do. I don't think Kamala will do everything she did in the past or everything she says she wants to do; we'll have to see. I see Trump supporters here glazing over, as you say, about what Trump has done. Are you really going to argue about whether she was middle-class? I trust no one is making their choice over that. But more importantly Trump did basically incite January 6th. It doesn't happen without him and during the course of that afternoon he did nothing for hours.

51 CIA agents changed the last election. A President who in all likelihood sold out his country. I'm not going to defend Biden, but that's still two statements without any proof, so what is their place in this discussion? It might be reason to not vote for Biden, but it's not going to effect Kamala's performance as President.

She was right there in the middle of it with Biden. You act like she had no part. She covered up his mental capacity. Period. There is no good guy or girl here. That is my point. And there is a massive amount of evidence that he sold out his country. You just don’t want to believe. Eye witness testimony. Bobulinski. Now an oligarch said he took money for favors. Moose laid it out so well it is impossible to argue against. Unless you don’t want to see it. Like his brain, do you want the money dead in his hands. Come on Celtic. That is some on Simpson type stuff

You can accuse him all you want of false statements. But why. You side has lied even more than Trump has. How is that even possible. You can’t sit on a pedestal anymore when you are neck deep in shit too. That is my point.

 

[DawglegrightinSC]

I grew up in an Episcopalian church as well. It was the most bland service and the only thing my mom could get my dad to attend. I guess if I believed what you believe about Trump I would have issues with him as well. At the end of the day I look for the candidate whose policies most align with the bible. Abortion and LGBT do not. Allowing millions in illegally is not a compassionate thing to do. There is a compassionate way to handle the crises in impoverished countries without subjecting them and the American people to what is happening. While I agree that the Church has not handled these topics well the bible is clear. You are one that is firm in your beliefs and no amount of talk on this site will sway you. We will just have to agree to disagree on politics.

 

[DawglegrightinSC]

No, the Constitution does not allow Pence to send back to the states.

There are constitutional lawyers who say you are wrong. It would have been argued over but it never happened. That was the point.

 

[DawglegrightinSC]

I conceded that all 9 are not moderate. But a President nominating an SC justice that the other party has to confirm is really the best case scenario and a great show of compromise and bipartisan governance.

The Reps allow almost anyone the Dems put up. It is the Dems that will actually fight for what they want. If Hillary was president, she would have also likely had the Senate anyway.

 

[cherrydawg]

I should have clarified. I take issue with Christians who enthusiastically support Trump and suggest that Trump holds the moral high ground. I understand that Trump is the candidate who will push the anti-abortion agenda and that this is reason enough.

But he is just an awful human being who very clearly does not live his life in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, while shamelessly claiming he does just so he can get the votes.

Mocking the attack on an old man for laughs is disgusting and he does that and similar all the time.

View embedded media

His son.

View embedded media

And this is the kind of religious hypocrisy that sickens me. Trump plays along for the praise and the votes.

View embedded media

You are gaslighting again.

1. Trump has come out as ok with abortion up to 16 or 20 weeks, so no he won't push the anti abortion thing.
2. I can show you multiple times dims have used Jesus to try and support their liberal agenda, the whole while they advocate for murder of babies, and homo sexuality.
3. I don't argue that trump does not have many flaws, but his flaws are no worse than Kamala and probably not as bad as tampon timmy.
4. Dims mock those that disagree with them all the time. Deplorables, bitter clingers, etc. It wouldn't be hard for you to find quotes from dims mocking trump voters, you would rather live in your bubble that makes you feel like you are above the fray voting kamala the adulterer. How is she better than trump as a person? One sin is as bad as the other. I ain't voting for anyones religious beliefs, I am voting for policy. You would rather support a lying, perversion pushing communist than trump and that's it. TDS to the extreme.
5. Maybe you will respond to the scripture I gave you, (and there are many more on the subject) but Christians should not promote people doing something that will separate them from God. Homosexuality is a sin that will cause one to lose ones soul. Kamala and little boy tampon using timmy walz defiantly push that agenda on people and excuse it as just a lifestyle rather than the sin it is) in another post. But I havn't had time to look at everything yet. How can you sit here and talk about as a Christian, you can't support trump, when kamala and timmy are no different? PLUS they are promoting a sinful lifestyle that will cause people to lose their soul. Seems like that should be the biggest issue. On top of both of them being at minimum communist sympathizers if not out right communist. A Christian should care about people enough to warn them they are in danger of losing their soul.... IN fact we are commanded to do just that, not support and excuse them for their sinful lifestyle.

We know you have tds. You should just say, hey, I hate trump, I would vote for the devil himself before I would vote for trump rather than claim you are doing your "Christian duty" because I am sorry to say sir you are not. You once told me in a post you didn't care what the Bible said and I am sorry for you. Just stop trying to blame Christians for your incorrect voting stance. Its your vote, its your choice and it is your fault. No one else is responsible for that crap.

 

[willdup]

I grew up in an Episcopalian church as well. It was the most bland service and the only thing my mom could get my dad to attend. I guess if I believed what you believe about Trump I would have issues with him as well. At the end of the day I look for the candidate whose policies most align with the bible. Abortion and LGBT do not. Allowing millions in illegally is not a compassionate thing to do. There is a compassionate way to handle the crises in impoverished countries without subjecting them and the American people to what is happening. While I agree that the Church has not handled these topics well the bible is clear. You are one that is firm in your beliefs and no amount of talk on this site will sway you. We will just have to agree to disagree on politics.

I have gay family and friends. They are all great people, but more importantly, they are good people in how they live their lives and treat others. I believe that they were born gay, and their only choice would be to live an unhappy, unfulfilled and lonely life as a celibate or fake-straight person, or to love and be devoted to someone who happens to be of the same sex. They have no more or less relationship issues than any of my straight friends and family.

If the bible is against that, then so be it. I respect your right to live as you interpret the bible instructs you to and would ask the same respect for those who do not, if they are otherwise good and honorable people.

 

[cherrydawg]

I think you have reading comprehension problem. I'm literally meeting him in the middle that Joe was wrong in what he said. The intelligence officials didn't fool anyone except for those that literally can't read the letter. That's their problem....not mine.


Except that one time that McConnell putnon a show and held up confirmation hearing for hundreds of days in 2016....you know....to keep someone out and get a partisan judge appointed.

LOL,,,, why don't you do yourself a favor and look at how the judges vote. Those appointed by trump are always more moderate and will vote one time with the more conservative and the next with the liberal wing. Only one time in recent history do I remember a obuma or a biden appointed judge not toeing the liberal/dim agenda line. Your argument is proven wrong by the justices themselves. Just like congress. Pubs cross the isle all the time, dims rarely. Its on paper, you can see for yourself if you really cared

All of this is useless though, Dims gonna dim and it matters not what is good for the country. Yall are all about party.. Even willing to vote for a communist. SMH never thought that would happen but pubs fooled around and let the education system turn into a breading ground for marxist. NO more education, just indoctrination.

 

[celticdawg]

She was right there in the middle of it with Biden. You act like she had no part. She covered up his mental capacity. Period. There is no good guy or girl here. That is my point. And there is a massive amount of evidence that he sold out his country. You just don’t want to believe. Eye witness testimony. Bobulinski. Now an oligarch said he took money for favors. Moose laid it out so well it is impossible to argue against. Unless you don’t want to see it. Like his brain, do you want the money dead in his hands. Come on Celtic. That is some on Simpson type stuff

You can accuse him all you want of false statements. But why. You side has lied even more than Trump has. How is that even possible. You can’t sit on a pedestal anymore when you are neck deep in shit too. That is my point.

You just won't quit. I said those things won't effect Kamala's performance as President. Would you expect her to tell you exactly what was going on with Biden? Be realistic. We never know exactly what is going on in the White House no matter who is President, so it doesn't make her bad. Again, I'm not defending Biden (and don't care if he is charged with anything), but what do you think Kamala knew about what he was involved in? And she is never going to say a word and it's not going to effect her performance as President. I'm repeating that because you aren't acknowledging that point and you certainly aren't saying you disagree with that. You keep going back to Biden and it's now irrelevant and I'm not going to address it again.

It's impossible to measure the enormous number of lies from both sides. But Trump lied during his Presidency and has continued. It seems like some people can't recognize that and so it will continue to be brought up as long as he is running for President. It's not a matter of sitting on a pedestal. And his lying is a minor reason for not voting for him.

 

[cherrydawg]

I have gay family and friends. They are all great people, but more importantly, they are good people in how they live their lives and treat others. I believe that they were born gay, and their only choice would be to live an unhappy, unfulfilled and lonely life as a celibate or fake-straight person, or to love and be devoted to someone who happens to be of the same sex. They have no more or less relationship issues than any of my straight friends and family.

If the bible is against that, then so be it. I respect you right to live as you interpret the bible and would ask the same respect for those who do not, if they are otherwise good and honorable people.

No one has said that gay people are bad people just because they are gay. I know gay people as well. Very nice. Still sinners but nice. Some gay people are evil just as some straight people are. God defines what sin is. Drunkard Ness is one, adultery is one, homosexuality is one lying is one, etc. They all will separate one from God if we continue in those sins. The Corinthian letter I quoted to you in the very next verse says "and such were some of you".. The Bible also says, God does not tempt but rather the devil. So God has done nothing to cause people to sin, the devil does that. The Bible also says in the book of James, that God will not allow us to be tempted beyond what we can withstand. So there is a choice of homosexuals. When we place what we want above what God wants, then we start making excuses and denying what the Bible says.

The Bible says in John that "WE can Know the truth, Thy word is truth. The Bible says the truth will make us free, and the Bible also says we will be judged by the words that are in the book. In Matthew the Bible says, Many will say in that day haven't we done my wonderful things in thy Name, feeding the poor, etc etc etc, and he will say Not everyone that says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom, but rather those that do my will. Where do we find his will? In the word that He said we will be judged by.

A drunkard can't stay a drunkard, a liar can't continue to lie, an adulterer cannot continue to be an adulterer nor can a homosexual continue to be a homosexual. This life is short. We are to live it according to Gods word to receive our reward in heaven. If we don't we will spend an eternity in torment because we chose the pleasures of earth for a season without regard for eternity.

I will be glad to give you all the scriptures if you want them, including more that make it clear what sin is and its result.... But you have to decide if you think man has the right to tell God how we are going to live or if the creator that sent his Son to die for us is in charge.

 

[zingerdawg]

You just won't quit. I said those things won't effect Kamala's performance as President. Would you expect her to tell you exactly what was going on with Biden? Be realistic. We never know exactly what is going on in the White House no matter who is President, so it doesn't make her bad. Again, I'm not defending Biden (and don't care if he is charged with anything), but what do you think Kamala knew about what he was involved in? And she is never going to say a word and it's not going to effect her performance as President. I'm repeating that because you aren't acknowledging that point and you certainly aren't saying you disagree with that. You keep going back to Biden and it's now irrelevant and I'm not going to address it again.

It's impossible to measure the enormous number of lies from both sides. But Trump lied during his Presidency and has continued. It seems like some people can't recognize that and so it will continue to be brought up as long as he is running for President. It's not a matter of sitting on a pedestal. And his lying is a minor reason for not voting for him.

Celtic I have to go to Biden because she is part of that administration. You can’t get around that. No matter how many times you want to avoid it. She is his vp.

You don’t want to say lying isn’t a reason to vote for her. How bout totally switching her thoughts about policy. Or saying whatever someone wants to hear like her promising reparations to reverend al. Her whole candidacy is one big lie. Built on only stuff people want to hear. Not her actual beliefs. Not based on her dogshit record. It is all a facade. Which when elected will go away and she will pay back the rich and powerful who helped to get her there. Americans be damned. That is where we are. Most of trump’s positions haven’t changed. And he will govern the same way he did the first time around. To hear Kamala tell it she is going to do a 180 from her own and Biden’s policy promises. They all sucked. So I don’t blame her. It is completely disingenuous. And imo miles more dangerous with the cover of the media.

I know all the reasons not to vote for Trump. But I know just like the last term he will be under a microscope his entire presidency. If I thought Kamala might get the same treatment in the media, I would be way less worried if she wins. All I can see, is how much the media and Kamala covered up for smooth brain. I hope that describes why she makes me massively uncomfortable. Give me rfk. He would be under the microscope. And he would govern from the middle.

 

[DawglegrightinSC]

I have gay family and friends. They are all great people, but more importantly, they are good people in how they live their lives and treat others. I believe that they were born gay, and their only choice would be to live an unhappy, unfulfilled and lonely life as a celibate or fake-straight person, or to love and be devoted to someone who happens to be of the same sex. They have no more or less relationship issues than any of my straight friends and family.

If the bible is against that, then so be it. I respect your right to live as you interpret the bible instructs you to and would ask the same respect for those who do not, if they are otherwise good and honorable people.

I am more interested in telling gay people about what Christ has done for them. While homosexuality is a sin, so is listing, lying,… I don’t tell gay people they have to change to be Christians but believe God can change their hearts and desires.

This is not a subject I have studied but I have ready multiple studies that show most gay adults suffered 1 or more traumatic events growing up (no father, abusive father, mental illness,…). I am not arguing that people aren’t born gay because I really don’t know. Either way, my job as a Christian is to share the gospel. It is up to God from there.

 

[jlstone412]

It was used that way. Even the director admitted it was written for political purposes. This is an insane hill to die on. They said it feels like or has the earmarks. lol. Are you reading what you are writing. If you believe that you will truly believe anything. It served its purpose and interfered with an election. Period. That is what it did.

Again, the letter is the letter. no amount of hand ringing is going to change what the letter says.

Re: admitting it was for political purposes

here is the fox news headline embedded in your initial link:

John Brennan's closed-door hearing 'confirmed' Hunter laptop letter was 'all political'​

A brief scan of Brennan's transcript does not support the headline here. I cannot find anywhere in the fox news article a quote from Brennan's testimony...other than the unimpeachable Jim Jordan saying so. anytime you see a headline with quotations around the buzz words...run for the hills. It is a misleading headline. maybe jim jordan believes Brennan 'confirmed' the laptop letter was 'all political'....but we all know that jim jordan believes many things that are not true.

Feel free to fact check me but i think you have been misled on Brennan's testimony; transcripts can be found here: https://judiciary.house.gov/media/p...leases-transcripts-intelligence-officials-who

*AI ALERT*

HERE IS A SUMMARY OF BRENNAN'S TESTIMONY WHEN I ASKED ADOBE AI TO PROVIDE A SUMMARY OF WHEN BRENNAN SAID THE LETTER WAS FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES:

John Brennan claims that the letter he signed, along with 50 other former intelligence officials, was not intended for political purposes but rather to raise public awareness about the potential for Russia to engage in information operations to influence a U.S. Presidential election.
Despite the content of the letter being based on information from a sitting intelligence professional about Russian efforts to hurt Biden and help Trump, Brennan emphasizes that the main motivations for signing the letter were to address Russian interference in the political system and to expose Russian interference efforts, rather than endorsing any presidential candidate.

The language in the letter was meant to highlight concerns about Russian interference in the election and caution against potential Russian influence operations, aligning with Brennan's intention to raise awareness about Russian influence operations in a nonpartisan and apolitical manner.

*END AI ALERT*

*AI ALERT 2*

I ASKED TO SUMMARIZE WHERE JOHN BRENNAN FELT THE LETTER WAS WRITTEN FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES:


John Brennan did not feel that the letter he signed, along with other former intelligence officials, was written for political purposes.

The main motivations behind signing the letter were to address concerns about Russian interference in the U.S. political system and to raise public awareness about the potential for Russian information operations to influence a U.S. Presidential election.

Brennan emphasized that the intent of the letter was to focus on addressing Russian interference in the political system, exposing Russian interference efforts, and cautioning against potential Russian influence operations.
His goal was to highlight the issue of Russian interference and safeguard the integrity of the electoral process in a nonpartisan and apolitical manner, rather than endorsing any political candidate or serving a specific political agenda.

*END AI ALERT 2*

In summary, i dont think brennan said what you think he said to Congress. he actually told congress that he wouldnt sign 1 draft because a paragraph in that draft was TOO POLITICAL. so... i stand by my position that the letter that he signed did not in fact call the laptop disinformation, and that the media (ALONG WITH JOE BIDEN IN THE DEBATE) mischaracterized the contents of the letter.

 

[jlstone412]

LOL,,,, why don't you do yourself a favor and look at how the judges vote. Those appointed by trump are always more moderate and will vote one time with the more conservative and the next with the liberal wing. Only one time in recent history do I remember a obuma or a biden appointed judge not toeing the liberal/dim agenda line. Your argument is proven wrong by the justices themselves. Just like congress. Pubs cross the isle all the time, dims rarely. Its on paper, you can see for yourself if you really cared

All of this is useless though, Dims gonna dim and it matters not what is good for the country. Yall are all about party.. Even willing to vote for a communist. SMH never thought that would happen but pubs fooled around and let the education system turn into a breading ground for marxist. NO more education, just indoctrination.

you and i are clearly on different wavelengths...

not sure how we got here...but my initial point is this: hillary wouldnt have rammed through 3 super liberal justices between 2016 and 2020 due to the make up of the senate should she have beaten trump in 2016 and all else remained the same. thats the point im trying to make. it wouldnt have happened. math doesnt support it. its not politics...its math. a discussion beyond that is pointless.

 

[zingerdawg]

Again, the letter is the letter. no amount of hand ringing is going to change what the letter says.

Re: admitting it was for political purposes

here is the fox news headline embedded in your initial link:

John Brennan's closed-door hearing 'confirmed' Hunter laptop letter was 'all political'​

A brief scan of Brennan's transcript does not support the headline here. I cannot find anywhere in the fox news article a quote from Brennan's testimony...other than the unimpeachable Jim Jordan saying so. anytime you see a headline with quotations around the buzz words...run for the hills. It is a misleading headline. maybe jim jordan believes Brennan 'confirmed' the laptop letter was 'all political'....but we all know that jim jordan believes many things that are not true.

Feel free to fact check me but i think you have been misled on Brennan's testimony; transcripts can be found here: https://judiciary.house.gov/media/p...leases-transcripts-intelligence-officials-who

*AI ALERT*

HERE IS A SUMMARY OF BRENNAN'S TESTIMONY WHEN I ASKED ADOBE AI TO PROVIDE A SUMMARY OF WHEN BRENNAN SAID THE LETTER WAS FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES:

John Brennan claims that the letter he signed, along with 50 other former intelligence officials, was not intended for political purposes but rather to raise public awareness about the potential for Russia to engage in information operations to influence a U.S. Presidential election.
Despite the content of the letter being based on information from a sitting intelligence professional about Russian efforts to hurt Biden and help Trump, Brennan emphasizes that the main motivations for signing the letter were to address Russian interference in the political system and to expose Russian interference efforts, rather than endorsing any presidential candidate.

The language in the letter was meant to highlight concerns about Russian interference in the election and caution against potential Russian influence operations, aligning with Brennan's intention to raise awareness about Russian influence operations in a nonpartisan and apolitical manner.

*END AI ALERT*

*AI ALERT 2*

I ASKED TO SUMMARIZE WHERE JOHN BRENNAN FELT THE LETTER WAS WRITTEN FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES:


John Brennan did not feel that the letter he signed, along with other former intelligence officials, was written for political purposes.

The main motivations behind signing the letter were to address concerns about Russian interference in the U.S. political system and to raise public awareness about the potential for Russian information operations to influence a U.S. Presidential election.

Brennan emphasized that the intent of the letter was to focus on addressing Russian interference in the political system, exposing Russian interference efforts, and cautioning against potential Russian influence operations.
His goal was to highlight the issue of Russian interference and safeguard the integrity of the electoral process in a nonpartisan and apolitical manner, rather than endorsing any political candidate or serving a specific political agenda.

*END AI ALERT 2*

In summary, i dont think brennan said what you think he said to Congress. he actually told congress that he wouldnt sign 1 draft because a paragraph in that draft was TOO POLITICAL. so... i stand by my position that the letter that he signed did not in fact call the laptop disinformation, and that the media (ALONG WITH JOE BIDEN IN THE DEBATE) mischaracterized the contents of the letter.

What does it matter. This is silly. The letters accomplished interfering with the election. They were written ambiguously on purpose. Agents bragged about doing this. Also they bragged about getting Biden elected. The head of the cia said the letters were written for political purposes. They interfered with an election. Helped along by Biden and the msm. There is no argument against that. Period. You can ai whatever you want. I just left quotes from the actually people involved in posts responding to you telling you all you should need to hear. It caused the laptop to be inconsequential for years. Turns out it certainly wasn’t. This along with the fbi claiming it had to change because of how they handled the trump investigation makes my point 1000 times over. You have to have some serious ass blinders on not to see this. People talk about maga being a cult. I swear Kamala and Biden could actually murder someone on camera. Be quoted saying yea I killed that asshole, and you guys will find a way to look around it. It is breathtaking.

 

[celticdawg]

Celtic I have to go to Biden because she is part of that administration. You can’t get around that. No matter how many times you want to avoid it. She is his vp.

You don’t want to say lying isn’t a reason to vote for her. How bout totally switching her thoughts about policy. Or saying whatever someone wants to hear like her promising reparations to reverend al. Her whole candidacy is one big lie. Built on only stuff people want to hear. Not her actual beliefs. Not based on her dogshit record. It is all a facade. Which when elected will go away and she will pay back the rich and powerful who helped to get her there. Americans be damned. That is where we are. Most of trump’s positions haven’t changed. And he will govern the same way he did the first time around. To hear Kamala tell it she is going to do a 180 from her own and Biden’s policy promises. They all sucked. So I don’t blame her. It is completely disingenuous. And imo miles more dangerous with the cover of the media.

I know all the reasons not to vote for Trump. But I know just like the last term he will be under a microscope his entire presidency. If I thought Kamala might get the same treatment in the media, I would be way less worried if she wins. All I can see, is how much the media and Kamala covered up for smooth brain. I hope that describes why she makes me massively uncomfortable. Give me rfk. He would be under the microscope. And he would govern from the middle.

OK, you are going to vote for Trump and I'm going to vote against him. That's settled.

I can't tell you what we'll see with Kamala as President, but hopefully she will grow into the job. We'll get through, though we really need to do something about immigration. You want to associate her with Biden, but I don't think she had much of a part, like most VPs. She will pay back the rich and powerful who helped to get her there and Americans be damned. The first part happens every time and was true for Trump. That doesn't mean Americans be damned and I'm more worried about what Trump will do.

Trump might generally govern the same way he did the first time around and that's not a positive. He was not a leader to be looked up to and why just repeat. He didn't do anything about the illegal immigrants that were already in the country. It was a show of building the wall which was not accomplished. But actually it might be worse and that's the problem. I have never seen so many people who worked with him that are concerned. I can't dismiss so many people who were close to his Presidency that don't think he should be President again. Can you guarantee that there will be a well thought out plan to deal with the immigrants? I would expect just the opposite. And what do you think the result would be if he pardoned everyone imprisoned from January 6th? It's possible. Some shouldn't have been sent to jail, but we are talking about plenty who attacked the police. And what's going to happen with his trials and sentencing? I'm sure he won't abuse his power (whether he was attacked unfairly or not, he committed what appears to be crimes.

There are a lot of things wrong with Washington, but he can't come in and burn it all down (not meant to be taken liberally), but what will he do. And there's another important thing. It's hard to judge his mental status, but it certainly can be questioned. But I have no faith that he will be mentally sound for four years. How will that be judged? I can understand the displeasure with Biden's decline, but what are the Republicans going to do differently.

The same discussion keep going around and around and then don't change much. Attacks are going to continue. I would love to see something positive from either side, but I'm not holding my breath. Kamala is going to say as little as possible and Trump is going to continue making ridiculous statements. But there is still a lot of time for something to happen.

Enjoy the bye week and get ready for the gauntlet. We're headed to Boston for five nights and are looking forward to leaving the heat behind.

 

[jlstone412]

What does it matter. This is silly. The letters accomplished interfering with the election. They were written ambiguously on purpose. Agents bragged about doing this. Also they bragged about getting Biden elected. The head of the cia said the letters were written for political purposes. They interfered with an election. Helped along by Biden and the msm. There is no argument against that. Period. You can ai whatever you want. I just left quotes from the actually people involved in posts responding to you telling you all you should need to hear. It caused the laptop to be inconsequential for years. Turns out it certainly wasn’t. This along with the fbi claiming it had to change because of how they handled the trump investigation makes my point 1000 times over. You have to have some serious ass blinders on not to see this. People talk about maga being a cult. I swear Kamala and Biden could actually murder someone on camera. Be quoted saying yea I killed that asshole, and you guys will find a way to look around it. It is breathtaking.

it matters because you are regurgitating opinions about the letter and testimony from brennan that are clearly inaccurate. it makes the other stuff you post incredibly difficult to believe.

on the 2 particular points, you are wrong:

* the letter didnt say that the laptop was russian disinfo
* brennan's testimony did not 'confirm' the letter was drafted for political purposes; he actually says quite the opposite if you bother to read his transcript

we cannot have civil discourse if one party to the conversation is going to stand by information that is easily refutable.

 

[zingerdawg]

it matters because you are regurgitating opinions about the letter and testimony from brennan that are clearly inaccurate. it makes the other stuff you post incredibly difficult to believe.

on the 2 particular points, you are wrong:

* the letter didnt say that the laptop was russian disinfo
* brennan's testimony did not 'confirm' the letter was drafted for political purposes; he actually says quite the opposite if you bother to read his transcript

we cannot have civil discourse if one party to the conversation is going to stand by information that is easily refutable.

Yep. Until they brag about what they did. They couldn’t help themselves

CIA veteran who signed Hunter Biden laptop letter says he sarcastically claimed credit for 2020 election - Washington Examiner

A longtime CIA veteran who signed the infamous letter baselessly asserting Russian involvement in the Hunter Biden laptop saga said he was proud to have played his part in influencing the 2020 election in favor of President Joe Biden — before backtracking and claiming he was being sarcastic when...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

It is easily refutable from my end. You are arguing semantics. The letter didn’t read exactly that. No shit. It was meant to be that way. And he brags about it right here. It was a planned action to cause the result that happened. There is no defense. It is nothing short of treason. Other than it was done to help a Democrat. Sorry. He backtracked after spilling the truth. Whoops. Blows your whole f’ed up argument out of the water

 

[cherrydawg]

it matters because you are regurgitating opinions about the letter and testimony from brennan that are clearly inaccurate. it makes the other stuff you post incredibly difficult to believe.

on the 2 particular points, you are wrong:

* the letter didnt say that the laptop was russian disinfo
* brennan's testimony did not 'confirm' the letter was drafted for political purposes; he actually says quite the opposite if you bother to read his transcript

we cannot have civil discourse if one party to the conversation is going to stand by information that is easily refutable.

Ummm why the letter if not political?
Even if it only implied Russia misinformation, the propaganda wing of your party , the media, took it and ran. It had its desired outcome. They knew it wasn’t, but as anyone can see, dims, and tds sufferers will say anything, tell any lie, do anything up to and including assassinate Trump to keep him out of office.

I bet if I looked back in the archives, a number of chat leftist will have posted claims that it was all just more Russian misinformation and cite the letter as proof.

I don’t remember much about you from that time? But there are 2 or 3 that I would be willing to wager did that.

After all, you all believe everything bad Weber said about the man no matter how contrived or how unscrupulous the accuser is. Even something as incredulous as the pee dossier your candidate bought and spread.

Letter was clearly election interference. Don’t understand at all how any fair minded person can’t see that. Not uncommon for dims, yall did it in 2016 too. Getting the whole Russia Russia thing going.

Look you are voting for the communist, zinger and I are not. Just admit it was what it was. Y’all got away with it and killary got away with 2016 because very few pubs have balls. You don’t have to vote Trump just to go ahead with the truth. Then all this arguing can stop.

 

[willdup]

Yep. Until they brag about what they did. They couldn’t help themselves

CIA veteran who signed Hunter Biden laptop letter says he sarcastically claimed credit for 2020 election - Washington Examiner

A longtime CIA veteran who signed the infamous letter baselessly asserting Russian involvement in the Hunter Biden laptop saga said he was proud to have played his part in influencing the 2020 election in favor of President Joe Biden — before backtracking and claiming he was being sarcastic when...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

It is easily refutable from my end. You are arguing semantics. The letter didn’t read exactly that. No shit. It was meant to be that way. And he brags about it right here. It was a planned action to cause the result that happened. There is no defense. It is nothing short of treason. Other than it was done to help a Democrat. Sorry. He backtracked after spilling the truth. Whoops. Blows your whole f’ed up argument out of the water

Zinger, facts matter. Either the letter said it was russian disinfo or it didn’t. It didn’t, and that claim is a lie. I’d argue that it is a very intentional lie, crafted to feed a narrative that Trump is a victim of some evil deep state cabal, working nefariously to keep a good man from saving the country, which is absurd but a lot of people believe.

BTW, last night on Gutfeld, Trump claimed he was fact-checked during the debate on practically everything he said, “nine times or eleven times” (it was three) and that the “audience was absolutely…they went crazy”.

There was no audience.

His condition is obvious. This or something similar is happening every day now. He’s always been a liar, but referencing an imaginary audience when 70m people watched a debate with no audience is delusional. He’s lost touch with reality and he’s running for a job that would require serving through 2029.

Admitting he’s unfit (for a multitude of reasons, but for now let’s focus on mental competence) is accepting reality. Biden supporters did it. Why can’t you and the GOP?

 

[ToddBburn]

Zinger, facts matter. Either the letter said it was russian disinfo or it didn’t. It didn’t, and that claim is a lie. I’d argue that it is a very intentional lie, crafted to feed a narrative that Trump is a victim of some evil deep state cabal, working nefariously to keep a good man from saving the country, which is absurd but a lot of people believe.

BTW, last night on Gutfeld, Trump claimed he was fact-checked during the debate on practically everything he said, “nine times or eleven times” (it was three) and that the “audience was absolutely…they went crazy”.

There was no audience.

His condition is obvious. This or something similar is happening every day now. He’s always been a liar, but referencing an imaginary audience when 70m people watched a debate with no audience is delusional. He’s lost touch with reality and he’s running for a job that would require serving through 2029.

Admitting he’s unfit (for a multitude of reasons, but for now let’s focus on mental competence) is accepting reality. Biden supporters did it. Why can’t you and the GOP?

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This is exactly what you do on so many of these issues. You cling to a “fact” and frame your narrative to fit your truth as you see it. Even after time has shown that “fact” does not tell the truth accurately. You do not take in other information and try to discern what is truly happening in the overall situation because it might not match up with how you want things to be. You are not alone and both sides do this in their own areas, but at this point given all that has transpired to hold that view so vehemently is either outright dishonesty or blatant partisan coverup.

 

[Double Bogey Dawg]

It’s a different world and comparing what happened during Trump’s term, when he inherited economic tailwinds, to Biden, who inherited a once in a century pandemic and unprecedented global economic chaos, is comparing two entirely different things.

But even if we ignore the obvious differences in the macro/external economic environment each faced, you are saying reinstalling the guy who tried to steal the presidency and, with the new magic immunity conferred by SCOTUS will be even less constrained, is worth about $1700 per month.

I think, were Trump reelected, you might find the true cost worth a lot more than the extra $1700 per month. You just wouldn’t know it until it was too late.

I don’t think it’s going to matter as Trump is going to continue to self-immolate. I’d be willing to wager that he’s going to lose, and I’d be willing to wager that when he does we will see violence again. It will be the last gasps of the MAGA movement. Then maybe we can finally get back to having two relatively competent parties again.

This very conservative columnist agrees with you:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/09/12/kamala-harris-presidency-republican-senate/

 

[willdup]

This is exactly what you do on so many of these issues. You cling to a “fact” and frame your narrative to fit your truth as you see it. Even after time has shown that “fact” does not tell the truth accurately. You do not take in other information and try to discern what is truly happening in the overall situation because it might not match up with how you want things to be. You are not alone and both sides do this in their own areas, but at this point given all that has transpired to hold that view so vehemently is either outright dishonesty or blatant partisan coverup.

I disagree.

The letter did not claim that the laptop was Russian disinfo.

Brennan did not admit during testimony that the letter was created with the intent to be political.

This is binary. Either those claims were true or not, and they were not. There is no nuance or context to consider.

Had right wing media said that it is reasonable to believe the 51 former intelligence officials knew how their letter would be used, I would agree that it’s a reasonable conclusion. The difference between that and factually misstating what the letter contained or what Brennan said is considerable and important.

If you have to lie about basic facts to make your point, perhaps your point isn’t that strong in the first place. Both sides do it, but since Trump came along it’s far more prevalent on the right than the left.

Trump did not oversee the best economy in our history.

Biden did not create the worst inflation in our history.

Babies are not executed after birth.

Haitians are not eating pets in OH.

The 2020 election was not stolen from Trump due to widespread, multi-state fraud.

Facts still matter, and politicians should be called out when they lie. Trump does it constantly, and his lies are big lies, easily proven to be lies. It matters.

 

[jlstone412]

Ummm why the letter if not political?
Even if it only implied Russia misinformation, the propaganda wing of your party , the media, took it and ran. It had its desired outcome. They knew it wasn’t, but as anyone can see, dims, and tds sufferers will say anything, tell any lie, do anything up to and including assassinate Trump to keep him out of office.

I bet if I looked back in the archives, a number of chat leftist will have posted claims that it was all just more Russian misinformation and cite the letter as proof.

I don’t remember much about you from that time? But there are 2 or 3 that I would be willing to wager did that.

After all, you all believe everything bad Weber said about the man no matter how contrived or how unscrupulous the accuser is. Even something as incredulous as the pee dossier your candidate bought and spread.

Letter was clearly election interference. Don’t understand at all how any fair minded person can’t see that. Not uncommon for dims, yall did it in 2016 too. Getting the whole Russia Russia thing going.

Look you are voting for the communist, zinger and I are not. Just admit it was what it was. Y’all got away with it and killary got away with 2016 because very few pubs have balls. You don’t have to vote Trump just to go ahead with the truth. Then all this arguing can stop.

and that is a completely separate issue (the media running with it and dems/biden mischaracterizing the letter -- im sure republicans would NEVER mischaracterize/sensationalize a story though...). i blame our extremely gullible electorate and the poison that is social media for the situation we are in currently.

i have provided facts and testimony to refute the following:
* the allegation made in this thread that the letter says the laptop was russian disinfo (the letter doesnt state that, and that's not 'semantics')
* the allegation made in this thread that brennan 'confirmed' to congress that the letter was drafted for 'political purposes' (the transcript of his testimony refutes that; i dont care what Jim Jordan told Fox News after Brennan's testimony...its the wron conclusion)

the rest of everything you are saying is noise to distract from the points i have made; i dont speak for the others here and what their opinions are. i was not actively posting so you wont find my thoughts on the matter.

but facts and evidence have to matter (unless your are JD Vance then you can just run with claims without confirming the information...or you confirm the information is not true and you run with it anyway). you can keep fighting with your feelings or come to terms that the facts are not on your side for the points i am making.

i will now editorialize a bit (this is not my conclusion at the time as i have the ability to read and reached my conclusion above about the letter nearly 4 years ago). if you want to know why some folks jumped to the conclusion that the laptop letter did state the laptop was russian disinfo (remember...it does not say that), let's remind ourselves that about 15 months prior, our president was on the phone with the ukrainian leader holding up the distribution of congressionally appropriated funds unless that leader provided dirt on a rival candidate (that had not even come close to securing the nomination); this action led to the impeachment of our president as he allegedly sought foreign interference in the 2020 election (irony...). im willing to bet that the russians didnt like the idea that we were providing aid to ukraine, and saw that through trump as president they may have an ally that would be willing to hold up further aid to ukraine should he win reelection. so, a conclusion could be made by some (media/voters/etc.), based on the above and intelligence that had come to light over the summer of 2020, the laptop was russian disinfo (there was no evidence to support that conclusion at the time, just 'common sense' 'connecting the dots' conclusions).

the people who wrote and drafted this letter had WAY MORE experience the just about everyone here in dealing with foreign governments and their intelligence operations. So...rightly or wrongly, folks took that letter, the experience of the 51 signers and came to their own conclusions about what the letter actually said, and likely used my outline above to make that leap.

i actually agree with you both that some reached the wrong conclusion, including biden saying the same during the debate -- he was wrong. but the letter was not election interference, didnt say the laptop was russian disinfo, nor did brennan testify that it was crafted for political purposes. those are facts that are not changing with the information that is currently available.