So rhetoric lies have consequence

[willdup]

No one has said that gay people are bad people just because they are gay. I know gay people as well. Very nice. Still sinners but nice. Some gay people are evil just as some straight people are. God defines what sin is. Drunkard Ness is one, adultery is one, homosexuality is one lying is one, etc. They all will separate one from God if we continue in those sins. The Corinthian letter I quoted to you in the very next verse says "and such were some of you".. The Bible also says, God does not tempt but rather the devil. So God has done nothing to cause people to sin, the devil does that. The Bible also says in the book of James, that God will not allow us to be tempted beyond what we can withstand. So there is a choice of homosexuals. When we place what we want above what God wants, then we start making excuses and denying what the Bible says.

The Bible says in John that "WE can Know the truth, Thy word is truth. The Bible says the truth will make us free, and the Bible also says we will be judged by the words that are in the book. In Matthew the Bible says, Many will say in that day haven't we done my wonderful things in thy Name, feeding the poor, etc etc etc, and he will say Not everyone that says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom, but rather those that do my will. Where do we find his will? In the word that He said we will be judged by.

A drunkard can't stay a drunkard, a liar can't continue to lie, an adulterer cannot continue to be an adulterer nor can a homosexual continue to be a homosexual. This life is short. We are to live it according to Gods word to receive our reward in heaven. If we don't we will spend an eternity in torment because we chose the pleasures of earth for a season without regard for eternity.

I will be glad to give you all the scriptures if you want them, including more that make it clear what sin is and its result.... But you have to decide if you think man has the right to tell God how we are going to live or if the creator that sent his Son to die for us is in charge.

Cherry, between the two posts, that’s a lot to respond to and I want to be respectful. I think I can keep this concise.

You said that I claimed that voting Dem was “doing my Christian duty”. I’ve never said or written that in my life as I’ve never thought about any action in the context of a Christian duty. I endeavor to treat others with kindness, understanding and a lack of judgment. Ultimately, I try and exercise the golden rule of treating others as I would hope to be treated.

While I believe that this is at the core of the teachings of Jesus, I’ve never framed as a religious duty. It’s simply, in my view, the right way to live in this world that we share. I don’t require a book or religion (BTW, most of the world’s major religions have their version of the golden rule) to guide me in this philosophy. The threat of eternal damnation is not a motivating factor for me. In fact, I struggle with the very idea of damnation as a reason to simply be a good person and find it cheapens humanity and makes kindness towards others to ultimately be a selfish act.

There is much in the Bible that is abhorrent and reflective of society at the time it was written. I reject the Bible as the literal word of God, which obviously makes me not a Christian. I respect your views on the matter as well as the fact that we live in a country where you are entirely free to make personal choices that reflect your beliefs. I’m simply suggesting that much of what makes this country great is our ability to accommodate people with a broad range of views and for all of us to generally live the lives we wish to.

 

[cherrydawg]

and that is a completely separate issue (the media running with it and dems/biden mischaracterizing the letter -- im sure republicans would NEVER mischaracterize/sensationalize a story though...). i blame our extremely gullible electorate and the poison that is social media for the situation we are in currently.

i have provided facts and testimony to refute the following:
* the allegation made in this thread that the letter says the laptop was russian disinfo (the letter doesnt state that, and that's not 'semantics')
* the allegation made in this thread that brennan 'confirmed' to congress that the letter was drafted for 'political purposes' (the transcript of his testimony refutes that; i dont care what Jim Jordan told Fox News after Brennan's testimony...its the wron conclusion)

the rest of everything you are saying is noise to distract from the points i have made; i dont speak for the others here and what their opinions are. i was not actively posting so you wont find my thoughts on the matter.

but facts and evidence have to matter (unless your are JD Vance then you can just run with claims without confirming the information...or you confirm the information is not true and you run with it anyway). you can keep fighting with your feelings or come to terms that the facts are not on your side for the points i am making.

i will now editorialize a bit (this is not my conclusion at the time as i have the ability to read and reached my conclusion above about the letter nearly 4 years ago). if you want to know why some folks jumped to the conclusion that the laptop letter did state the laptop was russian disinfo (remember...it does not say that), let's remind ourselves that about 15 months prior, our president was on the phone with the ukrainian leader holding up the distribution of congressionally appropriated funds unless that leader provided dirt on a rival candidate (that had not even come close to securing the nomination); this action led to the impeachment of our president as he allegedly sought foreign interference in the 2020 election (irony...). im willing to bet that the russians didnt like the idea that we were providing aid to ukraine, and saw that through trump as president they may have an ally that would be willing to hold up further aid to ukraine should he win reelection. so, a conclusion could be made by some (media/voters/etc.), based on the above and intelligence that had come to light over the summer of 2020, the laptop was russian disinfo (there was no evidence to support that conclusion at the time, just 'common sense' 'connecting the dots' conclusions).

the people who wrote and drafted this letter had WAY MORE experience the just about everyone here in dealing with foreign governments and their intelligence operations. So...rightly or wrongly, folks took that letter, the experience of the 51 signers and came to their own conclusions about what the letter actually said, and likely used my outline above to make that leap.

i actually agree with you both that some reached the wrong conclusion, including biden saying the same during the debate -- he was wrong. but the letter was not election interference, didnt say the laptop was russian disinfo, nor did brennan testify that it was crafted for political purposes. those are facts that are not changing with the information that is currently available.

Here is a fact. It was done with a political motive, knowing that the media would do their bidding and weak minded uninformed independents and dims would ignore the lap try tops indicators and go ahead and put an influence peddler in the White House

Further, some of those same intelligence types were lying about Trump and Russian collusion. Framing him if you will.

I’m sorry you are blinded by tds, but they wrote it for one purpose and that was to help Biden win the election proving it was election interference.

 

[jlstone412]

Here is a fact. It was done with a political motive, knowing that the media would do their bidding and weak minded uninformed independents and dims would ignore the lap try tops indicators and go ahead and put an influence peddler in the White House

Further, some of those same intelligence types were lying about Trump and Russian collusion. Framing him if you will.

I’m sorry you are blinded by tds, but they wrote it for one purpose and that was to help Biden win the election proving it was election interference.

you should really brush up on the definition of fact vs opinion...

im done here.

 

[cherrydawg]

Cherry, between the two posts, that’s a lot to respond to and I want to be respectful. I think I can keep this concise.

You said that I claimed that voting Dem was “doing my Christian duty”. I’ve never said or written that in my life as I’ve never thought about any action in the context of a Christian duty. I endeavor to treat others with kindness, understanding and a lack of judgment. Ultimately, I try and exercise the golden rule of treating others as I would hope to be treated.

While I believe that this is at the core of the teachings of Jesus, I’ve never framed as a religious duty. It’s simply, in my view, the right way to live in this world that we share. I don’t require a book or religion (BTW, most of the world’s major religions have their version of the golden rule) to guide me in this philosophy.

There is much in the Bible that is abhorrent and reflective of society at the time it was written. I reject the Bible as the literal word of God, which obviously makes me not a Christian. I respect your views on the matter as well as the fact that we live in a country where you are entirely free to make personal choices that reflect your beliefs. I’m simply suggesting that much of what makes this country great is our ability to accommodate people with a broad range of views and for all of us to generally live the lives we wish to.

I respect that answer. I feel sorry for you. But anyone that does not respect Gods word should not attack anyone as a hypocrite. I think you know just enough Bible to be a danger to yourself and others but not enough to understand its actual teachings.

 

[zingerdawg]

Zinger, facts matter. Either the letter said it was russian disinfo or it didn’t. It didn’t, and that claim is a lie. I’d argue that it is a very intentional lie, crafted to feed a narrative that Trump is a victim of some evil deep state cabal, working nefariously to keep a good man from saving the country, which is absurd but a lot of people believe.

BTW, last night on Gutfeld, Trump claimed he was fact-checked during the debate on practically everything he said, “nine times or eleven times” (it was three) and that the “audience was absolutely…they went crazy”.

There was no audience.

His condition is obvious. This or something similar is happening every day now. He’s always been a liar, but referencing an imaginary audience when 70m people watched a debate with no audience is delusional. He’s lost touch with reality and he’s running for a job that would require serving through 2029.

Admitting he’s unfit (for a multitude of reasons, but for now let’s focus on mental competence) is accepting reality. Biden supporters did it. Why can’t you and the GOP?

View embedded media

I can’t even believe you are trying to spin that will. They just up and wrote a letter for no reason. To accomplish nothing. Right. These are the facts. It was set up by Biden’s campaign manager. Fact. And it led to the laptop being called Russian disinformation which most people with a brain would say affected the election. I have already posted an article with one of the said agents bragging about how they wrote it and what they wanted to accomplish. (Ambiguously written to avoid getting in trouble, they are the cia you know). This is the New Democrat spin. You can’t cheat to win right. So we have to spin this. The agent admitted it. Why can’t you.

I will go find some clips for you. So you can feel better about missing Biden having a smooth brain for four years. Or calling it a deep fake. Why in the hell would I trust your judgement or any Democrat when it comes to a compromised human. You think Kamala is brilliant. And you also thought Biden was fine for four years. It is like asking a blind man for advice about when to cross the street. How could you possibly have any idea what that looks like will?

 

[willdup]

I can’t even believe you are trying to spin that will. They just up and wrote a letter for no reason. To accomplish nothing. Right. These are the facts. It was set up by Biden’s campaign manager. Fact. And it led to the laptop being called Russian disinformation which most people with a brain would say affected the election. I have already posted an article with one of the said agents bragging about how they wrote it and what they wanted to accomplish. (Ambiguously written to avoid getting in trouble, they are the cia you know). This is the New Democrat spin. You can’t cheat to win right. So we have to spin this. The agent admitted it. Why can’t you.

I will go find some clips for you. So you can feel better about missing Biden having a smooth brain for four years. Or calling it a deep fake. Why in the hell would I trust your judgement or any Democrat when it comes to a compromised human. You think Kamala is brilliant. And you also thought Biden was fine for four years. It is like asking a blind man for advice about when to cross the street. How could you possibly have any idea what that looks like will?

So you are going to find similar examples from the guy you claimed was never fit to serve to prove that the guy you want to serve the next four years is up for the job?

See the problem there?

 

[zingerdawg]

you should really brush up on the definition of fact vs opinion...

im done here.

Cherry, between the two posts, that’s a lot to respond to and I want to be respectful. I think I can keep this concise.

You said that I claimed that voting Dem was “doing my Christian duty”. I’ve never said or written that in my life as I’ve never thought about any action in the context of a Christian duty. I endeavor to treat others with kindness, understanding and a lack of judgment. Ultimately, I try and exercise the golden rule of treating others as I would hope to be treated.

While I believe that this is at the core of the teachings of Jesus, I’ve never framed as a religious duty. It’s simply, in my view, the right way to live in this world that we share. I don’t require a book or religion (BTW, most of the world’s major religions have their version of the golden rule) to guide me in this philosophy. The threat of eternal damnation is not a motivating factor for me. In fact, I struggle with the very idea of damnation as a reason to simply be a good person and find it cheapens humanity and makes kindness towards others to ultimately be a selfish act.

There is much in the Bible that is abhorrent and reflective of society at the time it was written. I reject the Bible as the literal word of God, which obviously makes me not a Christian. I respect your views on the matter as well as the fact that we live in a country where you are entirely free to make personal choices that reflect your beliefs. I’m simply suggesting that much of what makes this country great is our ability to accommodate people with a broad range of views and for all of us to generally live the lives we wish to.

Really and truly. What the better question here is why? That’s what is so disappointing about your responses. We already had learned that hunter was a crack addict. And he had written off 1 million dollars paid to hookers for entertainment.

Why did the laptop need to be suppressed if everything Joe did was on the up and up? That is the real question and the biggest danger in all of this. There is enough evidence to know his family was paid millions for nothing other than who Joe was. Why would Joe care? He could pardon his son for guns and tax stuff. That is nothing. Exactly

 

[zingerdawg]

So you are going to find similar examples from the guy you claimed was never fit to serve to prove that the guy you want to serve the next four years is up for the job?

See the problem there?

Yes. I see you trying to find things. Like others when he is on a talk show or off the cuff at a rally. Something your current candidate will not do unless it is carefully constructed and they are given the questions to ask ahead of time. It is desperate. I have said he is 77. This is likely to happen. I wanted younger candidates. Preference was to have both have a 70 iq or better. We can’t get what we want. I have fully admitted he is getting to that age, but the comparison is laughable. Your attempt and the Dems attempt is so hypocritical it defies logic. You couldn’t see it for four years at all. You wouldn’t even give an inch. While we were the laughingstock of the world.

 

[willdup]

Really and truly. What the better question here is why? That’s what is so disappointing about your responses. We already had learned that hunter was a crack addict. And he had written off 1 million dollars paid to hookers for entertainment.

Why did the laptop need to be suppressed if everything Joe did was on the up and up? That is the real question and the biggest danger in all of this. There is enough evidence to know his family was paid millions for nothing other than who Joe was. Why would Joe care? He could pardon his son for guns and tax stuff. That is nothing. Exactly

Rudy got a copy of the hard drive in late 2019, as did Trump’s FBI. That’s a year before the election. If the laptop had proven Joe committed crimes, Trump would have said so. It didn’t.

It’s 2024, and there’s still no proof that Joe broke any law or received financial benefit. There’s no proof that Joe altered any policy toward any adversary based on the money his family received. And, this is a big one, Biden is not the candidate for POTUS.

If your claim is that the letter served a political purpose at the time, I’ll agree with you. If you claim that the letter said the laptop was a Russian disinformation op, I’ll call out that you are factually wrong, just as you are wrong about your claims regarding Brennan’s testimony.

 

[willdup]

Yes. I see you trying to find things. Like others when he is on a talk show or off the cuff at a rally. Something your current candidate will not do unless it is carefully constructed and they are given the questions to ask ahead of time. It is desperate. I have said he is 77. This is likely to happen. I wanted younger candidates. Preference was to have both have a 70 iq or better. We can’t get what we want. I have fully admitted he is getting to that age, but the comparison is laughable. Your attempt and the Dems attempt is so hypocritical it defies logic. You couldn’t see it for four years at all. You wouldn’t even give an inch. While we were the laughingstock of the world.

OK, Zinger. Have a great day.

 

[zingerdawg]

Rudy got a copy of the hard drive in late 2019, as did Trump’s FBI. That’s a year before the election. If the laptop had proven Joe committed crimes, Trump would have said so. It didn’t.

It’s 2024, and there’s still no proof that Joe broke any law or received financial benefit. There’s no proof that Joe altered any policy toward any adversary based on the money his family received. And, this is a big one, Biden is not the candidate for POTUS.

If your claim is that the letter served a political purpose at the time, I’ll agree with you. If you claim that the letter said the laptop was a Russian disinformation op, I’ll call out that you are factually wrong, just as you are wrong about your claims regarding Brennan’s testimony.

Then why did Joe feel the need to suppress it. He had his campaign manager get rid of it. Trump did say he had committed crimes. Right there in the debate. The fbi slow walked the investigation. You know this. After it was deemed nothing by the cia. Barr said the fbi was doing fine. Do you think they did a good job? Now that we know what is on it.

I know you want to move on. This is why Kamala got a bump. Because the last four years are impossible to defend. It is why none of you want to attach Kamala to Joe. Sorry. No way around that.

I am glad that you agree the cia interfered with an election. What they did served a purpose. I will also agree it was never written by the cia that the laptop was Russian disinformation. This was run with by the Biden team and the media. It became a drinking game on cnbc. Shots every time you hear Russian disinformation.

I will also capitulate that Trump is getting older. I expect more mistakes. But he is no where near where Biden was in 2020. I will also say, Trump will likely be where Biden was in 2020 when he leaves office if he wins.

Good news for you. Either way. I will have to defend these things from you for four years if Trump wins. If Kamala wins, the term will be worse than Biden’s without a doubt. We will probably be in ww3 by the end of it. You will get to pretend to be sgt Shultz again for the next four years.

 

[ToddBburn]

I disagree.

The letter did not claim that the laptop was Russian disinfo.

Brennan did not admit during testimony that the letter was created with the intent to be political.

This is binary. Either those claims were true or not, and they were not. There is no nuance or context to consider.

Had right wing media said that it is reasonable to believe the 51 former intelligence officials knew how their letter would be used, I would agree that it’s a reasonable conclusion. The difference between that and factually misstating what the letter contained or what Brennan said is considerable and important.

If you have to lie about basic facts to make your point, perhaps your point isn’t that strong in the first place. Both sides do it, but since Trump came along it’s far more prevalent on the right than the left.

Trump did not oversee the best economy in our history.

Biden did not create the worst inflation in our history.

Babies are not executed after birth.

Haitians are not eating pets in OH.

The 2020 election was not stolen from Trump due to widespread, multi-state fraud.

Facts still matter, and politicians should be called out when they lie. Trump does it constantly, and his lies are big lies, easily proven to be lies. It matters.

The letter is a minor point. The lack of follow through on investigating the validity of what was on the laptop is the issue. They delayed the investigation until after the election and released a letter that indicated that it might have earmarks of Russian influence, etc. This was purely politically motivated and yes you have to use common sense to come to the conclusion. You will not even consider these possibilities and that amazes me. You tell others to view posts and links you put up from biased sources and yet you deny to do the same when others ask it of you.

There you go again twisting what is said. Yes babies have been left to die once they were born alive after a failed abortion. You get caught up on exact wording and even change it sometimes yourself.

You have no clue whether pets are being eaten in Ohio by Haitians and just the outright denial that it could happen shows a tremendous amount of arrogance. I think you know that it is possible. Yes there is no proof at the moment that you or I have seen. Have you been to Haiti?

You had similar responses to peoples assertions of Biden’s mental acuity.

Biden presided on one of the worst inflationary times we have seen.
I believe it is far more prevalent since Trump and I can agree with that. Some of his own making but the left has taken it and other things to new levels to stop him from being elected.
Had the left let him ride off into the sunset we would have a different Republican option. Because they sought to destroy him they elevated him into the nomination. I somewhat think it was on purpose because they thought he would be unelectable. They might be right but what they have done over the last several years has done more harm than Trump did. Because they have done so much unprecedented and underhanded things that it has driven a wedge between the masses more than anything Trump did, imo.

 

[willdup]

The letter is a minor point. The lack of follow through on investigating the validity of what was on the laptop is the issue. They delayed the investigation until after the election and released a letter that indicated that it might have earmarks of Russian influence, etc. This was purely politically motivated and yes you have to use common sense to come to the conclusion. You will not even consider these possibilities and that amazes me. You tell others to view posts and links you put up from biased sources and yet you deny to do the same when others ask it of you.

There you go again twisting what is said. Yes babies have been left to die once they were born alive after a failed abortion. You get caught up on exact wording and even change it sometimes yourself.

You have no clue whether pets are being eaten in Ohio by Haitians and just the outright denial that it could happen shows a tremendous amount of arrogance. I think you know that it is possible. Yes there is no proof at the moment that you or I have seen. Have you been to Haiti?

You had similar responses to peoples assertions of Biden’s mental acuity.

Biden presided on one of the worst inflationary times we have seen.
I believe it is far more prevalent since Trump and I can agree with that. Some of his own making but the left has taken it and other things to new levels to stop him from being elected.
Had the left let him ride off into the sunset we would have a different Republican option. Because they sought to destroy him they elevated him into the nomination. I somewhat think it was on purpose because they thought he would be unelectable. They might be right but what they have done over the last several years has done more harm than Trump did. Because they have done so much unprecedented and underhanded things that it has driven a wedge between the masses more than anything Trump did, imo.

Lack of follow through by Bill Barr’s DOJ? Take it up with Trump. It was his administration.

The circumstances that result in doctors and families needing to make late term, post-delivery decisions around mortality are almost always tragic due to underlying issues with either the mother or the baby. Trump’s disgusting suggestion that mothers and doctors are murdering healthy babies for convenience should be condemned for the lie that it is.

The pet-eating accusations have been entirely debunked. The woman who has been determined to be the source of the rumor has admitted that it was always third hand info and she has apologized. The city manager, police, every authority that would know has denied the story. Sure, anything is possible, but like the accusations of large scale vote fraud, the absence of evidence is indicative of the truth.

Biden took over during a pandemic that crushed the global economy. Inflation has been a global problem and we have balanced inflation reduction and growth better than every other major economy.

Trump is a malignant narcissist who is suffering from age-related deterioration. There is no mystery and he shows us who he is every day. I definitely got Biden’s mental acuity wrong, right up until the time i didn’t. Trump shows his backside daily now, but his supporters resist making the same obvious realization that those supporting Biden made months ago.

 

[ToddBburn]

we

Lack of follow through by Bill Barr’s DOJ? Take it up with Trump. It was his administration.

The circumstances that result in doctors and families needing to make late term, post-delivery decisions around mortality are almost always tragic due to underlying issues with either the mother or the baby. Trump’s disgusting suggestion that mothers and doctors are murdering healthy babies for convenience should be condemned for the lie that it is.

The pet-eating accusations have been entirely debunked. The woman who has been determined to be the source of the rumor has admitted that it was always third hand info and she has apologized. The city manager, police, every authority that would know has denied the story. Sure, anything is possible, but like the accusations of large scale vote fraud, the absence of evidence is indicative of the truth.

Biden took over during a pandemic that crushed the global economy. Inflation has been a global problem and we have balanced inflation reduction and growth better than every other major economy.

Trump is a malignant narcissist who is suffering from age-related deterioration. There is no mystery and he shows us who he is every day. I definitely got Biden’s mental acuity wrong, right up until the time i didn’t. Trump shows his backside daily now, but his supporters resist making the same obvious realization that those supporting Biden made months ago.

you ignore so much as you state facts do not match up. Facts can suppressed and they have been and even we are told later what happened you still dismiss and cling to one fact you can hold onto. You know the FBI is not run by the President and if those in charge have an agenda then it does not matter as they can do as they please. Especially if the press and most of the non elected officials have an interest in shaping events to fit a narrative.

You deflect with the best of them. You willfully ignore events when you can cling to a fact. The issue is not the pets or the geese or ducks. It is the inept border policy that has caused undue stress on city, county and state governments. This administration does not care about the consequences. They do not care about the economy or inflation. They give free handouts to these illegal immigrants with my tax dollars all the while we have citizens that are struggling.
They ignore the American citizens that are being held hostage by Hamas.
But all you can focus on is Trump. In my mind that is pathetic. You should call out all of the evil that is happening.
I find the bias disheartening and you and others(help perpetuate all of it). If everyone would hold their on candidates and parties accountable for their own crap things might get better.
You don’t talk about your neighbors yard and their issues when you have your own issues. That goes for me as well.

This is a worthless endeavor and I am bowing out. Might come back after the election.