What an incredibly pitiful demonstration of behavior...
- Thread starter Lava-Man
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Nope...Charles Lanier, but I guarantee you looked up the scripture
Here's one more for you...it applies to you well
Proverbs 18:7 When a fool speaks, he is ruining himself; he gets caught in the trap of his own words
Morally offended? No. Think it was ridiculous performative art? Yes. I called it out because it's further evidence that the Democrats learned nothing, post-Election. Why do you insist on trying to make this about a discussion other than that? Hypocrite? I'm literally talking about behavior during a POTUS address to Congress. You keep trying to make it about something else because your only hope is to dismiss it and make this discussion about something else.
OR you could just admit it was stupid and silly....but, that would make you also admit that your past comments are making you a hypocrite. I simply don't understand your insistence on making this entire thread something it isn't, unless you believe that every discussion MUST also incorporate J6 wailing & gnashing of teeth. Surely, you can see how silly that would be.
Also, you're wrong about the mandate. But, continue to dismiss it and not follow current polling that overwhelming shows the voting public is happy with the actions Trump has taken so far. Your misframing of the other topics you mentioned are more evidence for my argument.
I didn’t make a claim about Clinton, so what he claimed is immaterial to this discussion.
I don’t think Clinton had a mandate, but he did get 5.5% more of the vote than the next closest candidate. Trump won by 1.5%. Given you are a math guru, I think you can probably calculate the difference.
So Trump did better with various demos in an election he won than in an election he lost. Those are some compelling numbers. He still didn’t crack 50% and he’s working with the most narrow majority in the House in 95 years.
So that gives him a mandate dismantle the federal government, launch a global trade war and burn eighty year old alliances that have kept the planet safe and prospering? GTFOOH with that nonsense.
But as I said above, I hope he keeps doing exactly what he’s been doing. The pushback has already started this week and will only grow stronger.
Don't you think your point is a bit dishonest in its framing since Perot received 18.9% of the popular vote? Or are you going to honestly claim that liberals were running to Perot instead of Clinton, that year?
Since when did winning by 1% not become a win? You want me to give you 👏👏 and a 🏆 for losing by only 1%? It’s still a loss sparky, Trump won, he is your and my president and he has the right and authority to govern and lead this country.
Facts.
The overall total numbers are skewed when you consider the vote in California and New York, 2 of the most populated states and most liberal. Harris won CA by over 3 million votes NY by over 1 million votes. Trump still did better than expected on those 2 states. Popular votes doesn’t really matter because of the electoral college but it sure helps the cause when you win both.
The Dems have nothing else to hang on to but Jan 6. A few idiots crashed the capitol. That’s so old news we the people have moved on to other things. We have elected us a president that will protect us and help us prosper.
And we, the winners, hope that the Democratic Party keeps trotting out the same politics that got them beat. Guess we will see, you know, us, the party that holds the Legislative and Executive Branch. Going to be a great 4 years.
The only push back that I’ve heard is from the left talking heads on CNN and MSNBC. Have you seen the stats guy on CNN recently? He’s showing overwhelming support for Trump and that’s a shock coming from that network.
Evidently the 80% unfavorable rating for the Democrats Tuesday night got the DNC's attention
Democratic Party Leadership unhappy with childish acting progressives
Clearly, you don't get it: January 6th was bad, a threat to Democracy, and the worst thing since Hitler or "some people did something"
If you don't believe that, you're a hypocrite (for reasons undefined)
Only if you're intellectually dishonest, like you are here.
It must suck to think you're smarter than everyone else...despite ample evidence to the contrary. Eh, counselor?
Reading is fundamental and arrogance is a poor replacement for competency.
Intellectually dishonest? So some Congressmen acting petulant and interrupting a speech is worse than what Republicans did on Jan 6? You are lost
The only person saying that is you and will.
Again, reading is fundamental. You're both creating a dishonest narrative. It's all you have at this point, clearly.
How about discussing the actual issue? Your collective deflection is incredible, if not surprising...and you've managed to prove every point I've made in this thread. Amazing.
I admit the Congressmen acted petulant. It was embarrassing and pathetic. But you are the one that insisted that one couldn't find a comparably embarrassing collective act by Republicans (at the Capitol no less) - just take the hit and move on.
I haven’t defended the Dem performance Tuesday. In fact, I’ve used words like “weak” and “flaccid”. As I said in another thread, I didn’t watch the SOTU but I fully expected the Dems to fail in their efforts to present a competent opposition. So no need to accuse me of a position I haven’t taken.
Your tone was indignant. You called them petulant children and bemoaned the lack of decorum. So I didn’t defend the Dems but I did criticize you given who you voted for and who you have defended on here for some time. It’s relevant given there’s never been a worse lack of decorum in the Capitol than the event caused by, justified by and validated via pardons by the guy you enthusiastically support.
I’m not wrong about the mandate (math and history both lead to the same conclusion) ) but you are wrong about current polling, which is falling. Today, Trump walked back the tariffs (again), lost another labor case and emasculated Elon in front of the cabinet because the polling, the markets and the courts are all sending him a very clear message to stop overreaching.
I hope he doesn’t.
Well, I voted for Perot in that election. Do with that what you will.
Ok, so you're finally admitting that you're a liberal and not, as you have framed yourself, as a 'principled conservative'?
The context of the entire thread was behavior by politicians. Nowhere did anybody attempt to discuss anything else until will tried to shoehorn J6 into the discussion. I will take no hit for a strawman that both of you keep trying to force into the discussion, as if it excuses the ineffective behavior by the Democrats on Tuesday night.
In this thread? Where? I'm having a difficult time finding where you even discussed the behavior by the politicians in any response.
I'm accusing you of calling out behavior by Republicans in the SOTU (per the quote I provided) but refusing to do the same for the Democrats, which was both worse and widespread across those in attendance.
Since you didn't watch the speech, I'm not sure how you can decide if my tone is or isn't an appropriate response.
You wanting to make it relevant doesn't make it so. As I said above...the entire thread and following discussion was purely about behavior by politicians. But, you tried to make it about J6 (like you seem to do consistently). Changing the subject doesn't make you right.
You choosing to cherry pick polling (as left wing talking heads have been called out for already) to try and pretend that Trump's actions aren't popular does not in fact mean "current polling" is falling. You're simply wrong here.
How is "walking back tariffs" a bad thing or a sign of failure or loss? That's how he's always used it. But, you have a narrative to defend. Have fun with that.
No, I’ve framed myself as an independent who has voted against the Dem candidate for POTUS more than I’ve voted for them, and that was one of those times.Ok, so you're finally admitting that you're a liberal and not, as you have framed yourself, as a 'principled conservative'?
The ‘92 election was an unusual one given the horrible recession and the most viable third party candidate in several generations.
I also said that, like Trump, Clinton did not have a mandate. Neither POTUS did.
Reagan had a mandate. Obama won by 7% and 5%, which is much more of a mandate than 1.5% and less than 50% total. This isn’t a complicated debate.
But as I said, I’m hopeful that Trump continues right down the same path he is currently on by doing things like the absurd EO he just issued regarding Parkin Coie. That’s the only way that the GOP members who still have a spine will be forced to acknowledge and respond to Trump’s efforts to dispense with the Constitution and become the authoritarian ruler of the country, which is clearly his desire.
I was attempting some levity. I clearly failed
But, as I provided above...a mandate isn't always about the numbers, especially when dealing with a polarizing candidate like Trump. Given all he went through in the 4 years between administrations, winning the popular vote, all the swing states, and increasing shares across traditionally Democratic voting blocs is absolutely a mandate and his popularity has only gone up since the election.
But, what does matter is governing like you have a mandate (which he is) and whether or not the actions being taken are popular (which they are). Democrats pretending otherwise, cherry picking data, and denying what is right in their faces is ultimately irrelevant.
My bad. Whatever sense of humor I have is severely impacted these days when I’m discussing the topic of politics. It’s not a healthy way to go through life, that’s for sure, but that’s my issue to address.I was attempting some levity. I clearly failed
But, as I provided above...a mandate isn't always about the numbers, especially when dealing with a polarizing candidate like Trump. Given all he went through in the 4 years between administrations, winning the popular vote, all the swing states, and increasing shares across traditionally Democratic voting blocs is absolutely a mandate and his popularity has only gone up since the election.
But, what does matter is governing like you have a mandate (which he is) and whether or not the actions being taken are popular (which they are). Democrats pretending otherwise, cherry picking data, and denying what is right in their faces is ultimately irrelevant.
Trump’s popularity has not gone up since the election. Quite the opposite. DOGE is not popular, Musk and his role is not popular, tariffs are not popular and while people support the generic idea of “restructuring the federal government”, what they’ve seen so far is not what they had in mind.
I think that the stance towards Ukraine and our European allies has also hurt Trump, but I can’t find supporting polling to prove it.
If you have polling that says otherwise, please share. I can’t find a single poll that shows an improvement in Trump polling since the election.
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Damn, Moose. Any time I see a notification from you I take a deep breath before clicking on it as I know I'm going to have to set aside a solid hour to read and respond.
You just freed up the rest of my morning. Thank you, as I need to get some work done!
I just saw some people posting past each other and wanted it to stop 🤣
Honest question, how hard have you looked? Who are you listening to/reading?
ABC News and FiveThirtyEight have his net favorability rating rising by approximately 8 points since Election Day. On November 5, net favorability was -8.6 points, but by January 2025, it rose to neutral or slightly positive territory with ranges around 47 for both across polls.
According to a poll from Harvard CAPS/Harris, Trump hasa 52-43 percent approval rating among registered voters. 538 and RealClearPolling included it in their aggregate, resulting in a +0.8 and +1.8 net approval rating.
The poll also shows improvement from last month in many areas, especially for Trump's policies:
- Compared to the 28 percent who said so last month, 38 percent now say the economy is on the "right track."
- As is also highlighted by a press release for the poll, 42 percent of voters say the country is on "the right track," up from 28 percent in January. The gap is also narrower for the wrong track/right track, at 48-42 percent.
- 47 percent say the economy is "strong today," which the poll notes is the highest since 2021.
...is this enough? I can continue
Honest question, how hard have you looked? Who are you listening to/reading?
ABC News and FiveThirtyEight have his net favorability rating rising by approximately 8 points since Election Day. On November 5, net favorability was -8.6 points, but by January 2025, it rose to neutral or slightly positive territory with ranges around 47 for both across polls.
According to a poll from Harvard CAPS/Harris, Trump hasa 52-43 percent approval rating among registered voters. 538 and RealClearPolling included it in their aggregate, resulting in a +0.8 and +1.8 net approval rating.
The poll also shows improvement from last month in many areas, especially for Trump's policies:
- Compared to the 28 percent who said so last month, 38 percent now say the economy is on the "right track."
- As is also highlighted by a press release for the poll, 42 percent of voters say the country is on "the right track," up from 28 percent in January. The gap is also narrower for the wrong track/right track, at 48-42 percent.
- 47 percent say the economy is "strong today," which the poll notes is the highest since 2021.
...is this enough? I can continue
First, I made an important mistake.
I said since the election when I meant since taking office. Obviously, that's highly relevant and a material error. Any grief you want to dish out is warranted and I'll take it without complaint.
His polling since the taking office is mixed at best and a number of polls show a downward trend.
DOGE is going so well that Trump publicly cut Elon off at the knees during a cabinet meeting yesterday when he clarified that the head of each agency was solely responsible for employment decisions within that agency. That happened because of the legal, legislative and public pushback on what's been happening.
Trump puts new limits on Elon Musk's authority amid backlash to DOGE cuts
The president instructed his Cabinet to work with Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency but clarified that Cabinet members should be the ones making staffing decisions.
www.nbcnews.com
I'm very surprised by the one CBS post-SOTU poll you shared and can't speculate as to why I'm off there. As I said, I didn't watch the SOTU and a number of liked-minded friends made the same decision. Maybe that skewed the poll, but that's speculation only. Let's see what the polling says over the next week or so.
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Noted & I appreciate the distinction. I have zero desire to dish grief. As @Moosefish somewhat addressed above...sometimes minor "adjustments" or clarification of a point make a big difference. I made a comment I was not careful with. I assumed it was obvious. That's on me.
I'm only slightly put out by doing the leg work based on '...since the election' 😅😂🤣
But, I do admit I enjoyed the effort.
That's ultimately the big deal...even as we (I hope) both agree that polling is always after-the-fact for recent stuff...but, much more useful for longer-term discussion.
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