Clay Higgins and Ohio Haitians

[Lava-Man]

Sorry Lana-Man, but that’s a load. People here under TPS are here legally. It is correct that there is no direct path to citizenship and that, baring successful application to some other program or status they must leave once TOS expires, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t here legally.

Not a load, Mr. Dup (?)

Difference between being here legally temporarily and being a legal immigrant. They are still illegal immigrants. If not, TPS would not be required. Words matter, especially in how this issue is being debated/framed. If you do a simple search on this issue, you will see they must reapply, often in 18-month increments or less. How many fail to reapply? Is DHS deporting any whose status has expired? Again, this is meant to be temporary protection, not a vehicle to resettle them in large numbers across the US. The reasons this program has grown by leaps and bounds is not complicated.

 

[Lava-Man]

Sorry Lana-Man, but that’s a load. People here under TPS are here legally. It is correct that there is no direct path to citizenship and that, baring successful application to some other program or status they must leave once TOS expires, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t here legally.

More clarification my rock-minded glibbery, which further explains that no, they are not here "legally":

Julie Kirchner, executive director of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), said that most Haitian migrants who have entered the U.S. in the past four years have no legal status. “Haitians who enter the country illegally and then obtain temporary protected status are shielded from deportation, but receiving temporary protected status does not confer legal status.”

Kirchner — who previously worked in both Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) — explained that migrants who are actually in the U.S. legally would not need to be shielded from deportation to begin with, and being granted parole into the U.S. is not a lawful form of admission into the country.

“Finally, Haitians who cross the southern border illegally and claim asylum do not have, and will not get legal status, until their application for asylum is actually approved — which usually takes years, and, as the data show, happens in less than 5 percent of cases.”

Being granted Temporary Protected Status (TPS) does not automatically mean you are given legal status in the country, and those who are paroled into the country via the CBP One app are largely inadmissible to begin with, according to immigration experts.

“All those people who make appointments with the CBP One App have no right to be in the United States,” Arthur said. “They are essentially here illegally — they have no visas, they have no right to enter, yet they were paroled into the United States.”

“You can’t be paroled into the United States if you are admissible, you can only be paroled into the United States if you are inadmissible,” he continued.

With so many Haitian nationals in Springfield, it’s not entirely known how many are on TPS or who may have entered the U.S. via other means, according to Matt O’Brien, the investigations director for the Immigration Reform Law Institute.

“It’s unclear whether the majority of the recent cohort of Haitians in Springfield was given TPS, was granted parole, or was just waived into the U.S. – in violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act – and given a notice to appear in Immigration Court years from now,” O’Brien stated.

 

[willdup]

Not a load, Mr. Dup (?)

Difference between being here legally temporarily and being a legal immigrant. They are still illegal immigrants. If not, TPS would not be required. Words matter, especially in how this issue is being debated/framed. If you do a simple search on this issue, you will see they must reapply, often in 18-month increments or less. How many fail to reapply? Is DHS deporting any whose status has expired? Again, this is meant to be temporary protection, not a vehicle to resettle them in large numbers across the US. The reasons this program has grown by leaps and bounds is not complicated.

I agree, words matter and I'm going to continue to disagree. If they fail to reapply, then they become illegal. But those here under TPS are here legally.

You are using several hypotheticals to make your point while actually validating mine. If your argument is actually that a number Haitians who were here legally under TPS have fallen out of the program and are thus now illegal, fine. That's an argument, and of course I would ask you for supporting data to back your claim. But that's not what we are arguing, right?

 

[willdup]

More clarification my rock-minded glibbery, which further explains that no, they are not here "legally":

Julie Kirchner, executive director of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), said that most Haitian migrants who have entered the U.S. in the past four years have no legal status. “Haitians who enter the country illegally and then obtain temporary protected status are shielded from deportation, but receiving temporary protected status does not confer legal status.”

Kirchner — who previously worked in both Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) — explained that migrants who are actually in the U.S. legally would not need to be shielded from deportation to begin with, and being granted parole into the U.S. is not a lawful form of admission into the country.

“Finally, Haitians who cross the southern border illegally and claim asylum do not have, and will not get legal status, until their application for asylum is actually approved — which usually takes years, and, as the data show, happens in less than 5 percent of cases.”

Being granted Temporary Protected Status (TPS) does not automatically mean you are given legal status in the country, and those who are paroled into the country via the CBP One app are largely inadmissible to begin with, according to immigration experts.

“All those people who make appointments with the CBP One App have no right to be in the United States,” Arthur said. “They are essentially here illegally — they have no visas, they have no right to enter, yet they were paroled into the United States.”

“You can’t be paroled into the United States if you are admissible, you can only be paroled into the United States if you are inadmissible,” he continued.

With so many Haitian nationals in Springfield, it’s not entirely known how many are on TPS or who may have entered the U.S. via other means, according to Matt O’Brien, the investigations director for the Immigration Reform Law Institute.

“It’s unclear whether the majority of the recent cohort of Haitians in Springfield was given TPS, was granted parole, or was just waived into the U.S. – in violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act – and given a notice to appear in Immigration Court years from now,” O’Brien stated.

This Julie Kirchner?

Trump Official Who Once Led Hate Group Resigns Ombudsman Role

Julie Kirchner, a nativist hard-liner with ties to an anti-immigrant hate group, has resigned as ombudsman at U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).

www.splcenter.org

Federation for American Immigration Reform

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a group with one mission: to severely limit immigration into the United States. Although FAIR maintains a veneer of legitimacy that has allowed its principals to testify in Congress and lobby the federal government, this veneer hides much...

www.splcenter.org

 

[Lava-Man]

This Julie Kirchner?

Trump Official Who Once Led Hate Group Resigns Ombudsman Role

Julie Kirchner, a nativist hard-liner with ties to an anti-immigrant hate group, has resigned as ombudsman at U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).

www.splcenter.org

Federation for American Immigration Reform

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a group with one mission: to severely limit immigration into the United States. Although FAIR maintains a veneer of legitimacy that has allowed its principals to testify in Congress and lobby the federal government, this veneer hides much...

www.splcenter.org

Quotes from biased sources such as Buzzfeed in multiple articles from SPLC, of all places (hardly a beacon of fairness) mean absolutely nothing. It simply allows you to avoid the topics she discussed.

Regardless, None of that invalidates the explanation of TPS, how illegal immigrants may gain temporary parole using it, nor does it invalidate any of my arguments.

 

[Lava-Man]

I agree, words matter and I'm going to continue to disagree. If they fail to reapply, then they become illegal. But those here under TPS are here legally.

You are using several hypotheticals to make your point while actually validating mine. If your argument is actually that a number Haitians who were here legally under TPS have fallen out of the program and are thus now illegal, fine. That's an argument, and of course I would ask you for supporting data to back your claim. But that's not what we are arguing, right?

No, as I addressed TPC is a method to avoid deportation. That hardly makes them "Legal Immigrants" which has very specific legal meaning and which is the term that keeps being used inappropriately.

 

[willdup]

No, as I addressed TPC is a method to avoid deportation. That hardly makes them "Legal Immigrants" which has very specific legal meaning and which is the term that keeps being used inappropriately.

If they can’t be deported, have legal status to work and can, in some cases, travel out of and back into the country, they are here legally. Arguing otherwise is being pedantic. Either they are here legally and are afforded protections and rights under their legal status or they are not.

AI alert:

Immigrants who are in the U.S. under **Temporary Protected Status (TPS)** are considered to be in the country legally due to the specific protections provided by the program. Here is a detailed explanation of how this works:

1. **Granting of TPS**: The Secretary of Homeland Security designates a country for TPS when conditions in that country make it unsafe for its nationals to return, such as during armed conflicts, environmental disasters, or other extraordinary conditions. Once a country is designated, nationals from that country who are already present in the U.S. can apply for TPS.

2. **Legal Protections Under TPS**: Once an individual's application for TPS is approved, they are granted several legal protections:
- **Protection from Deportation**: TPS holders cannot be removed from the U.S. during the period that their country is designated for TPS.
- **Work Authorization**: TPS holders are eligible to receive an Employment Authorization Document (EAD), which allows them to legally work in the U.S.
- **Travel Authorization**: In some cases, TPS holders can apply for permission to travel outside the U.S. and return legally, under certain conditions.

These legal protections allow TPS holders to live and work in the U.S. without being considered unlawfully present, which is why they are considered to be here legally under immigration law [oai_citation:7,What is the Temporary Protected Status immigration designation covering Haitian immigrants in Springfield](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/haitian-immigrants-in-springfield-legally-under-temporary-protected-status-heres-how-that-works/UUG36RNJAVHBJCTMGCVL6FP25Q/) [oai_citation:6,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/).

3. **No Permanent Status**: While TPS protects individuals from deportation and allows them to work legally, it is not a pathway to permanent residence or citizenship. However, as long as the TPS designation for their home country is renewed, TPS holders can continue to live and work legally in the U.S. If the designation ends, they revert to whatever immigration status they held prior to receiving TPS or may face deportation if no other legal status applies [oai_citation:5,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/) [oai_citation:4,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

4. **Temporary Nature of TPS**: The "temporary" aspect means that TPS can be extended or terminated based on the situation in the designated country. For example, Haitians under TPS can stay in the U.S. legally until the current designation expires, which, as of recent extensions, is February 2026 [oai_citation:3,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

Therefore, TPS holders are legally present in the U.S. because the government has specifically granted them legal permission to remain and work, though it does not provide a permanent or long-term immigration status [oai_citation:2,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/) [oai_citation:1,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/).

 

[Lava-Man]

If they can’t be deported, have legal status to work and can, in some cases, travel out of and back into the country, they are here legally. Arguing otherwise is being pedantic. Either they are here legally and are afforded protections and rights under their legal status or they are not.

AI alert:

Immigrants who are in the U.S. under **Temporary Protected Status (TPS)** are considered to be in the country legally due to the specific protections provided by the program. Here is a detailed explanation of how this works:

1. **Granting of TPS**: The Secretary of Homeland Security designates a country for TPS when conditions in that country make it unsafe for its nationals to return, such as during armed conflicts, environmental disasters, or other extraordinary conditions. Once a country is designated, nationals from that country who are already present in the U.S. can apply for TPS.

2. **Legal Protections Under TPS**: Once an individual's application for TPS is approved, they are granted several legal protections:
- **Protection from Deportation**: TPS holders cannot be removed from the U.S. during the period that their country is designated for TPS.
- **Work Authorization**: TPS holders are eligible to receive an Employment Authorization Document (EAD), which allows them to legally work in the U.S.
- **Travel Authorization**: In some cases, TPS holders can apply for permission to travel outside the U.S. and return legally, under certain conditions.

These legal protections allow TPS holders to live and work in the U.S. without being considered unlawfully present, which is why they are considered to be here legally under immigration law [oai_citation:7,What is the Temporary Protected Status immigration designation covering Haitian immigrants in Springfield](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/haitian-immigrants-in-springfield-legally-under-temporary-protected-status-heres-how-that-works/UUG36RNJAVHBJCTMGCVL6FP25Q/) [oai_citation:6,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/).

3. **No Permanent Status**: While TPS protects individuals from deportation and allows them to work legally, it is not a pathway to permanent residence or citizenship. However, as long as the TPS designation for their home country is renewed, TPS holders can continue to live and work legally in the U.S. If the designation ends, they revert to whatever immigration status they held prior to receiving TPS or may face deportation if no other legal status applies [oai_citation:5,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/) [oai_citation:4,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

4. **Temporary Nature of TPS**: The "temporary" aspect means that TPS can be extended or terminated based on the situation in the designated country. For example, Haitians under TPS can stay in the U.S. legally until the current designation expires, which, as of recent extensions, is February 2026 [oai_citation:3,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

Therefore, TPS holders are legally present in the U.S. because the government has specifically granted them legal permission to remain and work, though it does not provide a permanent or long-term immigration status [oai_citation:2,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/) [oai_citation:1,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/).

None of that makes them a legal immigrant.

AI alert:

Are Haitians under Temporary Protection Status legal immigrants?

Based on the information available up to October 2, 2024, Haitians under Temporary Protected Status (TPS) are not considered "legal immigrants" in the traditional sense that implies permanent residency or a direct path to citizenship. Here's a clarification:

• Temporary Protected Status (TPS) is a temporary immigration status provided to nationals of certain countries experiencing problems like ongoing armed conflict, environmental disaster, or other extraordinary conditions that make it unsafe for their nationals to return. TPS does not lead directly to permanent residency or citizenship. Instead, it allows recipients to live and work in the U.S. for a limited time, which can be extended based on ongoing country conditions.
• Legal Status vs. Legal Immigrant: Individuals with TPS have a legal status in the sense that they are allowed to stay in the U.S. without being considered illegal immigrants, and they can obtain employment authorization. However, they are not "legal immigrants" on a path to citizenship through TPS alone. Their status is temporary, and they must re-register for TPS when it's up for renewal or if there's an extension.
• Path to Permanent Legal Status: If Haitians under TPS want to become legal permanent residents or eventually citizens, they would typically need to qualify for another immigration category, like family-based immigration, employment-based immigration, or perhaps through asylum if they qualify and apply separately from TPS.
• Recent Developments: As of mid-2024, the Biden administration expanded TPS for Haitians, allowing more Haitians who arrived by a certain date to apply for this status. This move provides temporary relief from deportation and allows them to work legally but doesn't inherently change their status to that of "legal immigrants" with a pathway to citizenship unless they pursue other immigration options.

Therefore, while Haitians with TPS have a lawful status for the duration of their TPS designation, they are not classified as "legal immigrants" in terms of having a permanent legal pathway to remain indefinitely or become U.S. citizens through TPS itself. Their presence in the U.S. under TPS is legal but explicitly temporary and conditional upon the ongoing designation of their home country for TPS.

 

[Lava-Man]

If they can’t be deported, have legal status to work and can, in some cases, travel out of and back into the country, they are here legally. Arguing otherwise is being pedantic. Either they are here legally and are afforded protections and rights under their legal status or they are not.

AI alert:

Immigrants who are in the U.S. under **Temporary Protected Status (TPS)** are considered to be in the country legally due to the specific protections provided by the program. Here is a detailed explanation of how this works:

1. **Granting of TPS**: The Secretary of Homeland Security designates a country for TPS when conditions in that country make it unsafe for its nationals to return, such as during armed conflicts, environmental disasters, or other extraordinary conditions. Once a country is designated, nationals from that country who are already present in the U.S. can apply for TPS.

2. **Legal Protections Under TPS**: Once an individual's application for TPS is approved, they are granted several legal protections:
- **Protection from Deportation**: TPS holders cannot be removed from the U.S. during the period that their country is designated for TPS.
- **Work Authorization**: TPS holders are eligible to receive an Employment Authorization Document (EAD), which allows them to legally work in the U.S.
- **Travel Authorization**: In some cases, TPS holders can apply for permission to travel outside the U.S. and return legally, under certain conditions.

These legal protections allow TPS holders to live and work in the U.S. without being considered unlawfully present, which is why they are considered to be here legally under immigration law [oai_citation:7,What is the Temporary Protected Status immigration designation covering Haitian immigrants in Springfield](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/haitian-immigrants-in-springfield-legally-under-temporary-protected-status-heres-how-that-works/UUG36RNJAVHBJCTMGCVL6FP25Q/) [oai_citation:6,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/).

3. **No Permanent Status**: While TPS protects individuals from deportation and allows them to work legally, it is not a pathway to permanent residence or citizenship. However, as long as the TPS designation for their home country is renewed, TPS holders can continue to live and work legally in the U.S. If the designation ends, they revert to whatever immigration status they held prior to receiving TPS or may face deportation if no other legal status applies [oai_citation:5,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/) [oai_citation:4,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

4. **Temporary Nature of TPS**: The "temporary" aspect means that TPS can be extended or terminated based on the situation in the designated country. For example, Haitians under TPS can stay in the U.S. legally until the current designation expires, which, as of recent extensions, is February 2026 [oai_citation:3,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

Therefore, TPS holders are legally present in the U.S. because the government has specifically granted them legal permission to remain and work, though it does not provide a permanent or long-term immigration status [oai_citation:2,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/) [oai_citation:1,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/).

Lava-man likes this AI deal, thank you Mr. Dup. No need to use my rock-brain to write posts...

TPS

• Criticism and Concerns:
  • Duration and Permanency: Critics argue that while TPS is meant to be temporary, it often gets extended repeatedly due to ongoing issues in designated countries, leading some to view it as a de facto long-term residency option. This has led to accusations that TPS is being used to bypass normal immigration processes.
  • Entry Method: There's a contention around the initial entry method of TPS beneficiaries. Although TPS does not require lawful entry into the U.S., the fact that it protects individuals regardless of their entry status leads some to argue it incentivizes illegal entry with the hope of future TPS designations.
  • Legal Pathways: There's a sentiment that TPS might be exploited as a loophole. Critics claim that individuals who might not otherwise qualify for legal immigration status use TPS as a means to remain in the U.S., even if conditions in their home country improve or if they initially entered illegally.
  • From a strict legal and immigration enforcement view, the repeated extensions and the protection of those who might have entered illegally could be seen as an abuse of the system's intent.

 

[willdup]

None of that makes them a legal immigrant.

AI alert:

Are Haitians under Temporary Protection Status legal immigrants?

Based on the information available up to October 2, 2024, Haitians under Temporary Protected Status (TPS) are not considered "legal immigrants" in the traditional sense that implies permanent residency or a direct path to citizenship. Here's a clarification:

• Temporary Protected Status (TPS) is a temporary immigration status provided to nationals of certain countries experiencing problems like ongoing armed conflict, environmental disaster, or other extraordinary conditions that make it unsafe for their nationals to return. TPS does not lead directly to permanent residency or citizenship. Instead, it allows recipients to live and work in the U.S. for a limited time, which can be extended based on ongoing country conditions.
• Legal Status vs. Legal Immigrant: Individuals with TPS have a legal status in the sense that they are allowed to stay in the U.S. without being considered illegal immigrants, and they can obtain employment authorization. However, they are not "legal immigrants" on a path to citizenship through TPS alone. Their status is temporary, and they must re-register for TPS when it's up for renewal or if there's an extension.
• Path to Permanent Legal Status: If Haitians under TPS want to become legal permanent residents or eventually citizens, they would typically need to qualify for another immigration category, like family-based immigration, employment-based immigration, or perhaps through asylum if they qualify and apply separately from TPS.
• Recent Developments: As of mid-2024, the Biden administration expanded TPS for Haitians, allowing more Haitians who arrived by a certain date to apply for this status. This move provides temporary relief from deportation and allows them to work legally but doesn't inherently change their status to that of "legal immigrants" with a pathway to citizenship unless they pursue other immigration options.

Therefore, while Haitians with TPS have a lawful status for the duration of their TPS designation, they are not classified as "legal immigrants" in terms of having a permanent legal pathway to remain indefinitely or become U.S. citizens through TPS itself. Their presence in the U.S. under TPS is legal but explicitly temporary and conditional upon the ongoing designation of their home country for TPS.

I believe both Harris and Waltz have said that they are “here legally”, which they are. If Waltz misspoke last night, it doesn’t in any way change the point that Trump and Vance lied about people who are here legally.

Back to what started this thread. Higgins threatening people who are here legally is beyond the pale and apparently the GOP has no huge issue with it.

 

[Lava-Man]

I believe both Harris and Waltz have said that they are “here legally”, which they are. If Waltz misspoke last night, it doesn’t in any way change the point that Trump and Vance lied about people who are here legally.

Back to what started this thread. Higgins threatening people who are here legally is beyond the pale and apparently the GOP has no huge issue with it.

The bigger-picture point is that CBS cut Vance’s mic while he was explaining how the Biden/Harris admin has allowed over 800,000 migrants to enter the US via the CBP One App “lawfully”.

It then sounded like Walz claimed the CBP One app has been used since the 90s, which is completely false. The Biden/Harris admin started using it in winter 2023 to begin mass paroling migrants into the country by the hundreds of thousands, typically between 1,300-1,500 every single day.

That is absolutely not what TPS was designed for. Timing and the exponential explosion of its use matter.

 

[jlstone412]

View embedded media

View embedded media

Hmmm. Not "legal" immigrants, otherwise they would not need TPS. 'Normal' immigration process not followed. A temporary status, after which they are here illegally if not deported. Technicality? Maybe. But, as you know, "If Iron and Calcite were Granite and Dacite, we'd all have a Merry Rockmas".

It is the increase of TPS use the past 4 years in a "non-temporary" manner. TPS from Haiti alone has increased massively from '20 to '24 (55,000 to 309,000), mixed with the other large numbers of illegals flooding in all across the country (and not just border states) which makes all of it controversial and one of the top campaign issues.

You may read all of this and more in TPS reports all across the intertubes, with appropriate cover sheets and all.

1: top marks for GIF and surprised it took us this long for a TPS report reference...

2: you are right that TPS has nothing to do with anyone's legal immigration status, but it's also not granted to immigrants upon arrival. It has to be renewed for new entrants to eligible, and they also have to apply. Also, legal immigrants can apply for TPS. It means they cannot be deported if their visas expire while TPS is still in effect.

3: it has yet to be shown the Springfield Haitians are here illegally. From Springfield's website:
Q: Are the immigrants here legally and how did they qualify?
A: YES, Haitian immigrants are here legally, under the Immigration Parole Program. Once here, immigrants are then eligible to apply for Temporary Protected Status (TPS). Haiti is designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security for TPS. Current TPS is granted through February 3, 2026.



Haitians here under IPP, while not conventional immigration process, is not "illegal" in any way, shape or form. Has the process been bastardized? Sure. "Illegal"? Nope. Will anyone fix it (legally)? Not a chance. At least so long as there is turmoil in Haiti that would extend the TPS even further.

so… Are they here legally? Yes. Are they “legal immigrants“? No. Both are true.

 

[Lava-Man]

1: top marks for GIF and surprised it took us this long for a TPS report reference...

It was low hanging fruit. 🤣

The rest of your post I believe I spoke to above. There are issues with TPS and how it has expanded and is used by illegal immigrants to gain some sort of legal protection and how the current administration has greatly expanded it with the use of an app.

 

[Lava-Man]

Ok, so some may ask Lava-Man (no idea why they would): "Why does this matter?" Because our government is failing us. Because priorities are way out of whack. Call us that are concerned "racist" or whatever. But, that's what a losing argument resorts to:

Exhibit A:

FEMA spent SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY MILLION DOLLARS on illegal immigrants this year and now it has no money for disaster relief.

SHOT:

CHASER:

 

[Lava-Man]

And before anybody claims "It's a new fiscal year!"

1. The incident happened in FY24, legally making this an FY24 expenditure
2. FEMA is not obligated to spend all of it's "disaster relief" money every year, and would have had more options available had it not already spent it on non-disaster choices.

 

[Don Ellis]

Ok, so some may ask Lava-Man (no idea why they would): "Why does this matter?" Because our government is failing us. Because priorities are way out of whack. Call us that are concerned "racist" or whatever. But, that's what a losing argument resorts to:

Exhibit A:

FEMA spent SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY MILLION DOLLARS on illegal immigrants this year and now it has no money for disaster relief.

SHOT:

CHASER:

This is actually hilarious and sad at the same time.

The faith the public puts in our government to do anything adequately is also hilarious

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

The bigger-picture point is that CBS cut Vance’s mic while he was explaining how the Biden/Harris admin has allowed over 800,000 migrants to enter the US via the CBP One App “lawfully”.

It then sounded like Walz claimed the CBP One app has been used since the 90s, which is completely false. The Biden/Harris admin started using it in winter 2023 to begin mass paroling migrants into the country by the hundreds of thousands, typically between 1,300-1,500 every single day.

That is absolutely not what TPS was designed for. Timing and the exponential explosion of its use matter.

This is the point. Not the definition of “legal”. It is the intentional use of loopholes in the law to allow migrants from one concentrated place temporary legal status. Who then seem to settle in concentrated areas….then competing for housing, jobs, etc. and receiving benefits. The definition doesn’t matter. No different in my mind than the “paroled” folks released at the southern border. It is an issue of administering existing law. Needs to be done differently.

 

[litedawg1968]

1: top marks for GIF and surprised it took us this long for a TPS report reference...

2: you are right that TPS has nothing to do with anyone's legal immigration status, but it's also not granted to immigrants upon arrival. It has to be renewed for new entrants to eligible, and they also have to apply. Also, legal immigrants can apply for TPS. It means they cannot be deported if their visas expire while TPS is still in effect.

3: it has yet to be shown the Springfield Haitians are here illegally. From Springfield's website:
Q: Are the immigrants here legally and how did they qualify?
A: YES, Haitian immigrants are here legally, under the Immigration Parole Program. Once here, immigrants are then eligible to apply for Temporary Protected Status (TPS). Haiti is designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security for TPS. Current TPS is granted through February 3, 2026.



Haitians here under IPP, while not conventional immigration process, is not "illegal" in any way, shape or form. Has the process been bastardized? Sure. "Illegal"? Nope. Will anyone fix it (legally)? Not a chance. At least so long as there is turmoil in Haiti that would extend the TPS even further.

so… Are they here legally? Yes. Are they “legal immigrants“? No. Both are true.

So they just "crafted" a new law for these folks? You see no problem with this? Could you possibly see why citizens in Springfield might be pissed?

 

[jlstone412]

So they just "crafted" a new law for these folks? You see no problem with this? Could you possibly see why citizens in Springfield might be pissed?

i’m not sure how you made that leap. Temporary protected status has been around since 1990, the immigrant parole program has been around for years, so there’s no “new law“ that’s being used here.

Bastardized use of the law? Sure but not a new law.

bottom line: the Haitians in Springfield are not here illegally, while simultaneously also not being legal immigrants. The two can be true at the same time. people are conflating 2 issues.

 

[litedawg1968]

i’m not sure how you made that leap. Temporary protected status has been around since 1990, the immigrant parole program has been around for years, so there’s no “new law“ that’s being used here.

Bastardized use of the law? Sure but not a new law.

bottom line: the Haitians in Springfield are not here illegally, while simultaneously also not being legal immigrants. The two can be true at the same time. people are conflating 2 issues.

So we are back at the same question- why did the US import a bunch of Haitians and dump them in Ohio and other spots? FEMA is out of money because we spent it on these people.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

i’m not sure how you made that leap. Temporary protected status has been around since 1990, the immigrant parole program has been around for years, so there’s no “new law“ that’s being used here.

Bastardized use of the law? Sure but not a new law.

bottom line: the Haitians in Springfield are not here illegally, while simultaneously also not being legal immigrants. The two can be true at the same time. people are conflating 2 issues.

The point is the same as the southern border. The active effective “invitation” to the world to come on up, and to your point, the use of existing law to allow that. Does that make it okay? I would argue it makes it worse. Incompetence is a better excuse. Was it coincidence they all started to roll up in droves once trump was out? Seriously please answer that.

This admin was willfully using law to fill up the country with folks on temporary or paroled status. They ignored critics totally until it became clear they had eff’d up their election chances because it was an issue that crossed party lines.

Incompetence or willful administrative acts favoring migrants over existing citizens?

“”They are illegal” = incompetence in administering the law.

“They are legal” = effective administration of loopholes in the law for a desired result.

Illegal / incompetence would be better for the Dems. They did this. And will likely lose largely because of it.

 

[litedawg1968]

The point is the same as the southern border. The active effective “invitation” to the world to come on up, and to your point, the use of existing law to allow that. Does that make it okay? I would argue it makes it worse. Incompetence is a better excuse. Was it coincidence they all started to roll up in droves once trump was out? Seriously please answer that.

This admin was willfully using law to fill up the country with folks on temporary or paroled status. They ignored critics totally until it became clear they had eff’d up their election chances because it was an issue that crossed party lines.

Incompetence or willful administrative acts favoring migrants over existing citizens?

“”They are illegal” = incompetence in administering the law.

“They are legal” = effective administration of loopholes in the law for a desired result.

Illegal / incompetence would be better for the Dems. They did this. And will likely lose largely because of it.

Thank you, these Dems are playing word games like everyone is a bunch of morons.

 

[willdup]

This is the point. Not the definition of “legal”. It is the intentional use of loopholes in the law to allow migrants from one concentrated place temporary legal status. Who then seem to settle in concentrated areas….then competing for housing, jobs, etc. and receiving benefits. The definition doesn’t matter. No different in my mind than the “paroled” folks released at the southern border. It is an issue of administering existing law. Needs to be done differently.

Actually, to bring you and @Lava-Man back to the point of this thread, Clay Higgins' dehumanizing and racist tweet and Trump and Vance knowingly lying and dehumanizing people who are currently in this country legally (hope that helps with the legal parsing that's been the focus of many of the last posts) isn't about policy. That's my point.

I'm on record here going back to 2022 or earlier saying that border policy was Biden's biggest failure and biggest political liability. But again, that isn't the point or even topic of this thread.

There are plenty of legitimate arguments against Biden's border policy. That does not justify lies, dehumanization and racism. In fact, when politicians (or anyone else) resort to such arguments, it actually weakens their argument significantly and should be called out for what it is.

 

[zingerdawg]

Lava-man likes this AI deal, thank you Mr. Dup. No need to use my rock-brain to write posts...

TPS

• Criticism and Concerns:
  • Duration and Permanency: Critics argue that while TPS is meant to be temporary, it often gets extended repeatedly due to ongoing issues in designated countries, leading some to view it as a de facto long-term residency option. This has led to accusations that TPS is being used to bypass normal immigration processes.
  • Entry Method: There's a contention around the initial entry method of TPS beneficiaries. Although TPS does not require lawful entry into the U.S., the fact that it protects individuals regardless of their entry status leads some to argue it incentivizes illegal entry with the hope of future TPS designations.
  • Legal Pathways: There's a sentiment that TPS might be exploited as a loophole. Critics claim that individuals who might not otherwise qualify for legal immigration status use TPS as a means to remain in the U.S., even if conditions in their home country improve or if they initially entered illegally.
  • From a strict legal and immigration enforcement view, the repeated extensions and the protection of those who might have entered illegally could be seen as an abuse of the system's intent.

This is very well done. Thank you for posting this.

Also anyone saying Vance is lying about their status isn’t listening. He has said multiple times that it is his opinion that they are not legal because there is no pathway for these folks to become legal thru this termporary amnesty deal. And now that it has bankrupted the program for Americans in need of flood relief, I don’t know how anyone can defend this.

 

[litedawg1968]

Actually, to bring you and @Lava-Man back to the point of this thread, Clay Higgins' dehumanizing and racist tweet and Trump and Vance knowingly lying and dehumanizing people who are currently in this country legally (hope that helps with the legal parsing that's been the focus of many of the last posts) isn't about policy. That's my point.

I'm on record here going back to 2022 or earlier saying that border policy was Biden's biggest failure and biggest political liability. But again, that isn't the point or even topic of this thread.

There are plenty of legitimate arguments against Biden's border policy. That does not justify lies, dehumanization and racism. In fact, when politicians (or anyone else) resort to such arguments, it actually weakens their argument significantly and should be called out for what it is.

One could argue that dumping 20,000 people that hate the US in Ohio is dehumanizing to them.

One could argue that dumping 15,000,000 illegal aliens into the US is dehumanizing to those of us that live here .

One could argue that spending FEMA money on aliens instead of Americans is dehumanizing to us.

You can take your dehumanization and shove it dude. Its apparent that our Government hates us. Sorry you havent gotten the memo yet, I understand you're in your feelings right now so its hard for you.

 

[zingerdawg]

Actually, to bring you and @Lava-Man back to the point of this thread, Clay Higgins' dehumanizing and racist tweet and Trump and Vance knowingly lying and dehumanizing people who are currently in this country legally (hope that helps with the legal parsing that's been the focus of many of the last posts) isn't about policy. That's my point.

I'm on record here going back to 2022 or earlier saying that border policy was Biden's biggest failure and biggest political liability. But again, that isn't the point or even topic of this thread.

There are plenty of legitimate arguments against Biden's border policy. That does not justify lies, dehumanization and racism. In fact, when politicians (or anyone else) resort to such arguments, it actually weakens their argument significantly and should be called out for what it is.

It is worse that they are technically here legally. Done in 2023. Much worse. How does that make it better. They granted temporary amnesty to 210000 haitians and spent hundreds of millions on them. I don’t care what some rep said. It is fear porn. The real issue here is how insanely idiotic this was to do. There is no other way to look at it.

 

[litedawg1968]

It is worse that they are technically here legally. Done in 2023. Much worse. How does that make it better. They granted temporary amnesty to 210000 haitians and spent hundreds of millions on them. I don’t care what some rep said. It is fear porn. The real issue here is how insanely idiotic this was to do. There is no other way to look at it.

Hes outside crying right now about Clay Higgins hurting peoples feelings. Give him some space.

Meanwhile there are caskets floating down river in Asheville and there are people starving with no food in Tennessee ,and there are elderly folks in Valdosta that no longer have a nursing home to live in , but WHAT ABOUT THE HAITIANS!

 

[brimur]

And I think that is the biggest issue with our fed gov operators and politics in general. Immigration is one of many issues where there is a huge amount of agreement but we've allowed our pols on both sides to stake out unreasonable positions and divide and conquer instead of actually enacting solutions that would enjoy around 80% approval.

Iows, even though you and I probably don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues, I'd be willing to bet we could come up with a fair, effective and constructive immigration policy within a month if we entered a meeting in good faith with the goal of resolving the issue. It's almost criminal that we've kicked this can down the road since the Reagan admin and are in a worse spot now than we were then.

100%

 

[brimur]

Immigration and AI are the biggest economic and security issues in the future. Don’t trust any politician that doesn’t have very nuanced plans for how to deal with them both. The surest way to ramp up inflation is to kick out all the “illegals” in one fell swoop. It’s the dirty little secret of the American middle class, it requires an underclass to work by keeping the prices of consumer goods low.

 

[litedawg1968]

Immigration and AI are the biggest economic and security issues in the future. Don’t trust any politician that doesn’t have very nuanced plans for how to deal with them both. The surest way to ramp up inflation is to kick out all the “illegals” in one fell swoop. It’s the dirty little secret of the American middle class, it requires an underclass to work by keeping the prices of consumer goods low.

I think most folks would be happy w 400k per year and a viable tracking process. I think setting up a [process where we bring the best people from other countries is a great idea, recruit the best from other countries. Scientists , teachers, economists, Im down with that.

!5 million people in 3.75 years isnt gonna work.

 

[shonuff253]

Hes outside crying right now about Clay Higgins hurting peoples feelings. Give him some space.

Meanwhile there are caskets floating down river in Asheville and there are people starving with no food in Tennessee ,and there are elderly folks in Valdosta that no longer have a nursing home to live in , but WHAT ABOUT THE HAITIANS!

So are you saying the congress who allocated the funding for Haitian immigrants YEARS AGO are negligent in their duties to the people of Asheville NC because they didn't predict Hurrican Helena?

 

[shonuff253]

I think most folks would be happy w 400k per year and a viable tracking process. I think setting up a [process where we bring the best people from other countries is a great idea, recruit the best from other countries. Scientists , teachers, economists, Im down with that.

!5 million people in 3.75 years isnt gonna work.

The US immigration process has been broken for years with both parties failing to properly address the issue. Again let's not forget over the last ten years both parties at one point held all levers of power but failed to do something about it. That's why it's so infuriating that Trump killed a bipartisan border bill...in hopes of winning election.

 

[litedawg1968]

So are you saying the congress who allocated the funding for Haitian immigrants YEARS AGO are negligent in their duties to the people of Asheville NC because they didn't predict Hurrican Helena?

Im assuming youre being sarcastic, because there is no way this is real.

FEMA is out of money now, today. Ill let you guess why.

 

[litedawg1968]

The US immigration process has been broken for years with both parties failing to properly address the issue. Again let's not forget over the last ten years both parties at one point held all levers of power but failed to do something about it. That's why it's so infuriating that Trump killed a bipartisan border bill...in hopes of winning election.

Spoiler alert- Trump did do something about and tried to do more but was thwarted at every chance. Obama did something about it too. So did Bill Clinton.

That border bill was complete shit and if it were good it would have passed Congress, but hey you do you pal.

 

[litedawg1968]

 

[shonuff253]

Im assuming youre being sarcastic, because there is no way this is real.

FEMA is out of money now, today. Ill let you guess why.

You're right...we do know why.

"House Republicans had previously included $10 billion in additional funding for FEMA as part of their initial six-month stopgap offer. But the funding fell out amid calls from hardline conservatives pushing for more to be done to curb government spending. Other Republicans also expressed confidence that the funding in the shorter stopgap plan that was eventually adopted was sufficient."

https://thehill.com/business/budget/4910588-hurricane-helene-congress-disaster-funding/

 

[shonuff253]

Spoiler alert- Trump did do something about and tried to do more but was thwarted at every chance. Obama did something about it too. So did Bill Clinton.

That border bill was complete shit and if it were good it would have passed Congress, but hey you do you pal.

What did Trump try?

 

[litedawg1968]

You're right...we do know why.

"House Republicans had previously included $10 billion in additional funding for FEMA as part of their initial six-month stopgap offer. But the funding fell out amid calls from hardline conservatives pushing for more to be done to curb government spending. Other Republicans also expressed confidence that the funding in the shorter stopgap plan that was eventually adopted was sufficient."

https://thehill.com/business/budget/4910588-hurricane-helene-congress-disaster-funding/

$24 Billion to Ukraine-

 

[willdup]

Spoiler alert- Trump did do something about and tried to do more but was thwarted at every chance. Obama did something about it too. So did Bill Clinton.

That border bill was complete shit and if it were good it would have passed Congress, but hey you do you pal.

No, it not passing Congress had nothing to do with the quality of the bill. Trump told his people in congress to kill the bill because he wanted to campaign on the issue. Trump has said as much as have others.

What did Trump try?

He tried to build a wall and have Mexico pay for it.

He was POTUS and the GOP controlled the Senate and House the first two years of his administration. What's his excuse for not "shutting down the border"?

 

[shonuff253]

Imagine what $10 billion would mean to the people of NC right now...just imagine.

$24 Billion to Ukraine-

Lol what...what does Ukraine funding allocated 12 to 24 months ago have to to with a hurricane that happened last week? 🤣