Clay Higgins and Ohio Haitians

[Lava-Man]

Sorry Lana-Man, but that’s a load. People here under TPS are here legally. It is correct that there is no direct path to citizenship and that, baring successful application to some other program or status they must leave once TOS expires, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t here legally.

Not a load, Mr. Dup (?)

Difference between being here legally temporarily and being a legal immigrant. They are still illegal immigrants. If not, TPS would not be required. Words matter, especially in how this issue is being debated/framed. If you do a simple search on this issue, you will see they must reapply, often in 18-month increments or less. How many fail to reapply? Is DHS deporting any whose status has expired? Again, this is meant to be temporary protection, not a vehicle to resettle them in large numbers across the US. The reasons this program has grown by leaps and bounds is not complicated.

 

[Lava-Man]

Sorry Lana-Man, but that’s a load. People here under TPS are here legally. It is correct that there is no direct path to citizenship and that, baring successful application to some other program or status they must leave once TOS expires, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t here legally.

More clarification my rock-minded glibbery, which further explains that no, they are not here "legally":

Julie Kirchner, executive director of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), said that most Haitian migrants who have entered the U.S. in the past four years have no legal status. “Haitians who enter the country illegally and then obtain temporary protected status are shielded from deportation, but receiving temporary protected status does not confer legal status.”

Kirchner — who previously worked in both Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) — explained that migrants who are actually in the U.S. legally would not need to be shielded from deportation to begin with, and being granted parole into the U.S. is not a lawful form of admission into the country.

“Finally, Haitians who cross the southern border illegally and claim asylum do not have, and will not get legal status, until their application for asylum is actually approved — which usually takes years, and, as the data show, happens in less than 5 percent of cases.”

Being granted Temporary Protected Status (TPS) does not automatically mean you are given legal status in the country, and those who are paroled into the country via the CBP One app are largely inadmissible to begin with, according to immigration experts.

“All those people who make appointments with the CBP One App have no right to be in the United States,” Arthur said. “They are essentially here illegally — they have no visas, they have no right to enter, yet they were paroled into the United States.”

“You can’t be paroled into the United States if you are admissible, you can only be paroled into the United States if you are inadmissible,” he continued.

With so many Haitian nationals in Springfield, it’s not entirely known how many are on TPS or who may have entered the U.S. via other means, according to Matt O’Brien, the investigations director for the Immigration Reform Law Institute.

“It’s unclear whether the majority of the recent cohort of Haitians in Springfield was given TPS, was granted parole, or was just waived into the U.S. – in violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act – and given a notice to appear in Immigration Court years from now,” O’Brien stated.

 

[willdup]

Not a load, Mr. Dup (?)

Difference between being here legally temporarily and being a legal immigrant. They are still illegal immigrants. If not, TPS would not be required. Words matter, especially in how this issue is being debated/framed. If you do a simple search on this issue, you will see they must reapply, often in 18-month increments or less. How many fail to reapply? Is DHS deporting any whose status has expired? Again, this is meant to be temporary protection, not a vehicle to resettle them in large numbers across the US. The reasons this program has grown by leaps and bounds is not complicated.

I agree, words matter and I'm going to continue to disagree. If they fail to reapply, then they become illegal. But those here under TPS are here legally.

You are using several hypotheticals to make your point while actually validating mine. If your argument is actually that a number Haitians who were here legally under TPS have fallen out of the program and are thus now illegal, fine. That's an argument, and of course I would ask you for supporting data to back your claim. But that's not what we are arguing, right?

 

[willdup]

More clarification my rock-minded glibbery, which further explains that no, they are not here "legally":

Julie Kirchner, executive director of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), said that most Haitian migrants who have entered the U.S. in the past four years have no legal status. “Haitians who enter the country illegally and then obtain temporary protected status are shielded from deportation, but receiving temporary protected status does not confer legal status.”

Kirchner — who previously worked in both Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) — explained that migrants who are actually in the U.S. legally would not need to be shielded from deportation to begin with, and being granted parole into the U.S. is not a lawful form of admission into the country.

“Finally, Haitians who cross the southern border illegally and claim asylum do not have, and will not get legal status, until their application for asylum is actually approved — which usually takes years, and, as the data show, happens in less than 5 percent of cases.”

Being granted Temporary Protected Status (TPS) does not automatically mean you are given legal status in the country, and those who are paroled into the country via the CBP One app are largely inadmissible to begin with, according to immigration experts.

“All those people who make appointments with the CBP One App have no right to be in the United States,” Arthur said. “They are essentially here illegally — they have no visas, they have no right to enter, yet they were paroled into the United States.”

“You can’t be paroled into the United States if you are admissible, you can only be paroled into the United States if you are inadmissible,” he continued.

With so many Haitian nationals in Springfield, it’s not entirely known how many are on TPS or who may have entered the U.S. via other means, according to Matt O’Brien, the investigations director for the Immigration Reform Law Institute.

“It’s unclear whether the majority of the recent cohort of Haitians in Springfield was given TPS, was granted parole, or was just waived into the U.S. – in violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act – and given a notice to appear in Immigration Court years from now,” O’Brien stated.

This Julie Kirchner?

Trump Official Who Once Led Hate Group Resigns Ombudsman Role

Julie Kirchner, a nativist hard-liner with ties to an anti-immigrant hate group, has resigned as ombudsman at U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).

www.splcenter.org

Federation for American Immigration Reform

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a group with one mission: to severely limit immigration into the United States. Although FAIR maintains a veneer of legitimacy that has allowed its principals to testify in Congress and lobby the federal government, this veneer hides much...

www.splcenter.org

 

[Lava-Man]

This Julie Kirchner?

Trump Official Who Once Led Hate Group Resigns Ombudsman Role

Julie Kirchner, a nativist hard-liner with ties to an anti-immigrant hate group, has resigned as ombudsman at U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).

www.splcenter.org

Federation for American Immigration Reform

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a group with one mission: to severely limit immigration into the United States. Although FAIR maintains a veneer of legitimacy that has allowed its principals to testify in Congress and lobby the federal government, this veneer hides much...

www.splcenter.org

Quotes from biased sources such as Buzzfeed in multiple articles from SPLC, of all places (hardly a beacon of fairness) mean absolutely nothing. It simply allows you to avoid the topics she discussed.

Regardless, None of that invalidates the explanation of TPS, how illegal immigrants may gain temporary parole using it, nor does it invalidate any of my arguments.

 

[Lava-Man]

I agree, words matter and I'm going to continue to disagree. If they fail to reapply, then they become illegal. But those here under TPS are here legally.

You are using several hypotheticals to make your point while actually validating mine. If your argument is actually that a number Haitians who were here legally under TPS have fallen out of the program and are thus now illegal, fine. That's an argument, and of course I would ask you for supporting data to back your claim. But that's not what we are arguing, right?

No, as I addressed TPC is a method to avoid deportation. That hardly makes them "Legal Immigrants" which has very specific legal meaning and which is the term that keeps being used inappropriately.

 

[willdup]

No, as I addressed TPC is a method to avoid deportation. That hardly makes them "Legal Immigrants" which has very specific legal meaning and which is the term that keeps being used inappropriately.

If they can’t be deported, have legal status to work and can, in some cases, travel out of and back into the country, they are here legally. Arguing otherwise is being pedantic. Either they are here legally and are afforded protections and rights under their legal status or they are not.

AI alert:

Immigrants who are in the U.S. under **Temporary Protected Status (TPS)** are considered to be in the country legally due to the specific protections provided by the program. Here is a detailed explanation of how this works:

1. **Granting of TPS**: The Secretary of Homeland Security designates a country for TPS when conditions in that country make it unsafe for its nationals to return, such as during armed conflicts, environmental disasters, or other extraordinary conditions. Once a country is designated, nationals from that country who are already present in the U.S. can apply for TPS.

2. **Legal Protections Under TPS**: Once an individual's application for TPS is approved, they are granted several legal protections:
- **Protection from Deportation**: TPS holders cannot be removed from the U.S. during the period that their country is designated for TPS.
- **Work Authorization**: TPS holders are eligible to receive an Employment Authorization Document (EAD), which allows them to legally work in the U.S.
- **Travel Authorization**: In some cases, TPS holders can apply for permission to travel outside the U.S. and return legally, under certain conditions.

These legal protections allow TPS holders to live and work in the U.S. without being considered unlawfully present, which is why they are considered to be here legally under immigration law [oai_citation:7,What is the Temporary Protected Status immigration designation covering Haitian immigrants in Springfield](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/haitian-immigrants-in-springfield-legally-under-temporary-protected-status-heres-how-that-works/UUG36RNJAVHBJCTMGCVL6FP25Q/) [oai_citation:6,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/).

3. **No Permanent Status**: While TPS protects individuals from deportation and allows them to work legally, it is not a pathway to permanent residence or citizenship. However, as long as the TPS designation for their home country is renewed, TPS holders can continue to live and work legally in the U.S. If the designation ends, they revert to whatever immigration status they held prior to receiving TPS or may face deportation if no other legal status applies [oai_citation:5,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/) [oai_citation:4,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

4. **Temporary Nature of TPS**: The "temporary" aspect means that TPS can be extended or terminated based on the situation in the designated country. For example, Haitians under TPS can stay in the U.S. legally until the current designation expires, which, as of recent extensions, is February 2026 [oai_citation:3,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

Therefore, TPS holders are legally present in the U.S. because the government has specifically granted them legal permission to remain and work, though it does not provide a permanent or long-term immigration status [oai_citation:2,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/) [oai_citation:1,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/).

 

[Lava-Man]

If they can’t be deported, have legal status to work and can, in some cases, travel out of and back into the country, they are here legally. Arguing otherwise is being pedantic. Either they are here legally and are afforded protections and rights under their legal status or they are not.

AI alert:

Immigrants who are in the U.S. under **Temporary Protected Status (TPS)** are considered to be in the country legally due to the specific protections provided by the program. Here is a detailed explanation of how this works:

1. **Granting of TPS**: The Secretary of Homeland Security designates a country for TPS when conditions in that country make it unsafe for its nationals to return, such as during armed conflicts, environmental disasters, or other extraordinary conditions. Once a country is designated, nationals from that country who are already present in the U.S. can apply for TPS.

2. **Legal Protections Under TPS**: Once an individual's application for TPS is approved, they are granted several legal protections:
- **Protection from Deportation**: TPS holders cannot be removed from the U.S. during the period that their country is designated for TPS.
- **Work Authorization**: TPS holders are eligible to receive an Employment Authorization Document (EAD), which allows them to legally work in the U.S.
- **Travel Authorization**: In some cases, TPS holders can apply for permission to travel outside the U.S. and return legally, under certain conditions.

These legal protections allow TPS holders to live and work in the U.S. without being considered unlawfully present, which is why they are considered to be here legally under immigration law [oai_citation:7,What is the Temporary Protected Status immigration designation covering Haitian immigrants in Springfield](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/haitian-immigrants-in-springfield-legally-under-temporary-protected-status-heres-how-that-works/UUG36RNJAVHBJCTMGCVL6FP25Q/) [oai_citation:6,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/).

3. **No Permanent Status**: While TPS protects individuals from deportation and allows them to work legally, it is not a pathway to permanent residence or citizenship. However, as long as the TPS designation for their home country is renewed, TPS holders can continue to live and work legally in the U.S. If the designation ends, they revert to whatever immigration status they held prior to receiving TPS or may face deportation if no other legal status applies [oai_citation:5,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/) [oai_citation:4,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

4. **Temporary Nature of TPS**: The "temporary" aspect means that TPS can be extended or terminated based on the situation in the designated country. For example, Haitians under TPS can stay in the U.S. legally until the current designation expires, which, as of recent extensions, is February 2026 [oai_citation:3,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

Therefore, TPS holders are legally present in the U.S. because the government has specifically granted them legal permission to remain and work, though it does not provide a permanent or long-term immigration status [oai_citation:2,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/) [oai_citation:1,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/).

None of that makes them a legal immigrant.

AI alert:

Are Haitians under Temporary Protection Status legal immigrants?

Based on the information available up to October 2, 2024, Haitians under Temporary Protected Status (TPS) are not considered "legal immigrants" in the traditional sense that implies permanent residency or a direct path to citizenship. Here's a clarification:

• Temporary Protected Status (TPS) is a temporary immigration status provided to nationals of certain countries experiencing problems like ongoing armed conflict, environmental disaster, or other extraordinary conditions that make it unsafe for their nationals to return. TPS does not lead directly to permanent residency or citizenship. Instead, it allows recipients to live and work in the U.S. for a limited time, which can be extended based on ongoing country conditions.
• Legal Status vs. Legal Immigrant: Individuals with TPS have a legal status in the sense that they are allowed to stay in the U.S. without being considered illegal immigrants, and they can obtain employment authorization. However, they are not "legal immigrants" on a path to citizenship through TPS alone. Their status is temporary, and they must re-register for TPS when it's up for renewal or if there's an extension.
• Path to Permanent Legal Status: If Haitians under TPS want to become legal permanent residents or eventually citizens, they would typically need to qualify for another immigration category, like family-based immigration, employment-based immigration, or perhaps through asylum if they qualify and apply separately from TPS.
• Recent Developments: As of mid-2024, the Biden administration expanded TPS for Haitians, allowing more Haitians who arrived by a certain date to apply for this status. This move provides temporary relief from deportation and allows them to work legally but doesn't inherently change their status to that of "legal immigrants" with a pathway to citizenship unless they pursue other immigration options.

Therefore, while Haitians with TPS have a lawful status for the duration of their TPS designation, they are not classified as "legal immigrants" in terms of having a permanent legal pathway to remain indefinitely or become U.S. citizens through TPS itself. Their presence in the U.S. under TPS is legal but explicitly temporary and conditional upon the ongoing designation of their home country for TPS.

 

[Lava-Man]

If they can’t be deported, have legal status to work and can, in some cases, travel out of and back into the country, they are here legally. Arguing otherwise is being pedantic. Either they are here legally and are afforded protections and rights under their legal status or they are not.

AI alert:

Immigrants who are in the U.S. under **Temporary Protected Status (TPS)** are considered to be in the country legally due to the specific protections provided by the program. Here is a detailed explanation of how this works:

1. **Granting of TPS**: The Secretary of Homeland Security designates a country for TPS when conditions in that country make it unsafe for its nationals to return, such as during armed conflicts, environmental disasters, or other extraordinary conditions. Once a country is designated, nationals from that country who are already present in the U.S. can apply for TPS.

2. **Legal Protections Under TPS**: Once an individual's application for TPS is approved, they are granted several legal protections:
- **Protection from Deportation**: TPS holders cannot be removed from the U.S. during the period that their country is designated for TPS.
- **Work Authorization**: TPS holders are eligible to receive an Employment Authorization Document (EAD), which allows them to legally work in the U.S.
- **Travel Authorization**: In some cases, TPS holders can apply for permission to travel outside the U.S. and return legally, under certain conditions.

These legal protections allow TPS holders to live and work in the U.S. without being considered unlawfully present, which is why they are considered to be here legally under immigration law [oai_citation:7,What is the Temporary Protected Status immigration designation covering Haitian immigrants in Springfield](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/haitian-immigrants-in-springfield-legally-under-temporary-protected-status-heres-how-that-works/UUG36RNJAVHBJCTMGCVL6FP25Q/) [oai_citation:6,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/).

3. **No Permanent Status**: While TPS protects individuals from deportation and allows them to work legally, it is not a pathway to permanent residence or citizenship. However, as long as the TPS designation for their home country is renewed, TPS holders can continue to live and work legally in the U.S. If the designation ends, they revert to whatever immigration status they held prior to receiving TPS or may face deportation if no other legal status applies [oai_citation:5,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/) [oai_citation:4,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

4. **Temporary Nature of TPS**: The "temporary" aspect means that TPS can be extended or terminated based on the situation in the designated country. For example, Haitians under TPS can stay in the U.S. legally until the current designation expires, which, as of recent extensions, is February 2026 [oai_citation:3,Haitian immigrants in Springfield: Federal extension will allow more people to remain until 2026](https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/how-could-temporary-protected-status-extension-for-haitians-affect-springfield/MKMVZDEGWRF4FPKAQNGFDOJD7E/).

Therefore, TPS holders are legally present in the U.S. because the government has specifically granted them legal permission to remain and work, though it does not provide a permanent or long-term immigration status [oai_citation:2,Why Are Haitians Moving to Springfield? Are They Here Legally?](https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/09/25/fact-check-springfield-ohio-claims-haitian-migrants-are-legal-are-they/) [oai_citation:1,Explainer: The federal programs that paved the way for Springfield Haitian influx](https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/explainer-the-federal-programs-that-paved-the-way-for-springfield-haitian-influx/QZ62Q7DGRFE6DJPBQ3C4BWHR3E/).

Lava-man likes this AI deal, thank you Mr. Dup. No need to use my rock-brain to write posts...

TPS

• Criticism and Concerns:
  • Duration and Permanency: Critics argue that while TPS is meant to be temporary, it often gets extended repeatedly due to ongoing issues in designated countries, leading some to view it as a de facto long-term residency option. This has led to accusations that TPS is being used to bypass normal immigration processes.
  • Entry Method: There's a contention around the initial entry method of TPS beneficiaries. Although TPS does not require lawful entry into the U.S., the fact that it protects individuals regardless of their entry status leads some to argue it incentivizes illegal entry with the hope of future TPS designations.
  • Legal Pathways: There's a sentiment that TPS might be exploited as a loophole. Critics claim that individuals who might not otherwise qualify for legal immigration status use TPS as a means to remain in the U.S., even if conditions in their home country improve or if they initially entered illegally.
  • From a strict legal and immigration enforcement view, the repeated extensions and the protection of those who might have entered illegally could be seen as an abuse of the system's intent.

 

[willdup]

None of that makes them a legal immigrant.

AI alert:

Are Haitians under Temporary Protection Status legal immigrants?

Based on the information available up to October 2, 2024, Haitians under Temporary Protected Status (TPS) are not considered "legal immigrants" in the traditional sense that implies permanent residency or a direct path to citizenship. Here's a clarification:

• Temporary Protected Status (TPS) is a temporary immigration status provided to nationals of certain countries experiencing problems like ongoing armed conflict, environmental disaster, or other extraordinary conditions that make it unsafe for their nationals to return. TPS does not lead directly to permanent residency or citizenship. Instead, it allows recipients to live and work in the U.S. for a limited time, which can be extended based on ongoing country conditions.
• Legal Status vs. Legal Immigrant: Individuals with TPS have a legal status in the sense that they are allowed to stay in the U.S. without being considered illegal immigrants, and they can obtain employment authorization. However, they are not "legal immigrants" on a path to citizenship through TPS alone. Their status is temporary, and they must re-register for TPS when it's up for renewal or if there's an extension.
• Path to Permanent Legal Status: If Haitians under TPS want to become legal permanent residents or eventually citizens, they would typically need to qualify for another immigration category, like family-based immigration, employment-based immigration, or perhaps through asylum if they qualify and apply separately from TPS.
• Recent Developments: As of mid-2024, the Biden administration expanded TPS for Haitians, allowing more Haitians who arrived by a certain date to apply for this status. This move provides temporary relief from deportation and allows them to work legally but doesn't inherently change their status to that of "legal immigrants" with a pathway to citizenship unless they pursue other immigration options.

Therefore, while Haitians with TPS have a lawful status for the duration of their TPS designation, they are not classified as "legal immigrants" in terms of having a permanent legal pathway to remain indefinitely or become U.S. citizens through TPS itself. Their presence in the U.S. under TPS is legal but explicitly temporary and conditional upon the ongoing designation of their home country for TPS.

I believe both Harris and Waltz have said that they are “here legally”, which they are. If Waltz misspoke last night, it doesn’t in any way change the point that Trump and Vance lied about people who are here legally.

Back to what started this thread. Higgins threatening people who are here legally is beyond the pale and apparently the GOP has no huge issue with it.

 

[Lava-Man]

I believe both Harris and Waltz have said that they are “here legally”, which they are. If Waltz misspoke last night, it doesn’t in any way change the point that Trump and Vance lied about people who are here legally.

Back to what started this thread. Higgins threatening people who are here legally is beyond the pale and apparently the GOP has no huge issue with it.

The bigger-picture point is that CBS cut Vance’s mic while he was explaining how the Biden/Harris admin has allowed over 800,000 migrants to enter the US via the CBP One App “lawfully”.

It then sounded like Walz claimed the CBP One app has been used since the 90s, which is completely false. The Biden/Harris admin started using it in winter 2023 to begin mass paroling migrants into the country by the hundreds of thousands, typically between 1,300-1,500 every single day.

That is absolutely not what TPS was designed for. Timing and the exponential explosion of its use matter.