NonDawg Educators in Rural Schools

[ZappaDawg]

He

He was my teacher also.

I have a different approach to sleeping and phone usage in my classroom. I can reach anyone in my class with my water bottle. This typically gets the job done. Done with a smile. If I have a student who gets actually upset, I'll use a different approach. I teach in a very rural area and have been here for almost 20 years, so I can probably get away with a little more because everyone knows me well and respects my teaching ability (like to think so, anyway).

 

[UGDawwg]

You didnt happen to teach history at a school with blue in its colors did you?

Blue? Nope why?

 

[GrazingBulldawg]

Blue? Nope why?

Thought I had an idea of who you were. Turns out......I was wrong.

 

[NWGA_DAWG]

I have enjoyed reading all the comments on here and appreciate fprex for starting the thread.

Much like healthcare, I am comfortable looking at high performing systems globally and examine what they do that leads to successful outcomes. All the Scandinavian countries, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan, Canada, Germany , and Switzerland are worth studying. Generally all seem to have high levels of parental involvement, but they also work from a nationally financed and standardized model. All these countries, but particularly the Scandinavian ones, are quick to identify and react to poor performing school systems. They throw resources at them to get them up to par, including sending in top teaching talent.

Demographic, cultural, societal, and political factors drive the education discussion, just as they do everything else.

I do want all you who work in education to know that I recognize your job as incredibly important and I appreciate all you do in a difficult and demanding profession.

Honest question, is there great public school in GA in a district with a bad socioeconomic demo?

 

[Mercer Dawg]

Exactly. You clearly see what the issue is here.

This county has apathy that is multi-generational, honestly. We will not get much help from parents - that’s a confirmed fact.

It’s why I’ve said we need to Moneyball this thing. What others do will not work. We need outside the box suggestions.

Lived with a public school teacher that is now a private school teacher. JMO from a casual observer of what she's dealt with from both realms, it's the expectations that start at home when it comes to kids wanting to excel. As to teachers, I'm a big believer in law of unintended consequences. No child left behind created more paperwork than accountability and you have teachers having to spend more time doing writeups of if a kid is falling behind rather than spending time teaching. Of course, flip side of a private school is that parents will text and call at all times of the night complaining about homework, class is too hard, why can't it be more fun, etc. Of course, if school vouchers ever arrive here, that may actually make all parents behave that way if they can take their kid to the school of their choice.

 

[UGDawwg]

Thought I had an idea of who you were. Turns out......I was wrong.

Few of us out here in the 159 counties of GA.

 

[UGDawwg]

Honest question, is there great public school in GA in a district with a bad socioeconomic demo?

Sadly it almost does always go hand in hand... but then of course it usually also includes parental involvement/support. I'll argue that component trumps ALL others in a schools success/failure on every level.

 

[NWGA_DAWG]

Sadly it almost does always go hand in hand... but then of course it usually also includes parental involvement/support. I'll argue that component trumps ALL others in a schools success/failure on every level.

The argument for school vouchers.

 

[rectomo]

The argument for school vouchers.

The argument for federal control of educational funding, just like all the high performing countries I mentioned above.

What is interesting is that some of those countries allow you to go to any public school you want to attend. The difference is that they don't accept poor performing schools, so most people send their kids to nearby schools.

Sweden does use vouchers extensively and is an interesting case study to examine.

 

[NWGA_DAWG]

The argument for federal control of educational funding, just like all the high performing countries I mentioned above.

What is interesting is that some of those countries allow you to go to any public school you want to attend. The difference is that they don't accept poor performing schools, so most people send their kids to nearby schools.

Sweden does use vouchers extensively and is an interesting case study to examine.

I'm not arguing for school vouchers or against it but there's a reason all the social stuff works in Scandinavia. As a society, we may be too far gone for real solutions in education, Healthcare, pick your issue and I'm not confident our leaders want to fix any of it.

 

[rectomo]

I'm confident that none of our "leaders" are capable of doing what needs to be done.

It is an entertaining discussion, though.

 

[LouisianaDawg318]

I have similar experience. I have taught in Gwinnett, Habersham, Hall and now an extremely rural part of Mississippi. What you described about the laid-back attitude being comforting is very true and it does permeate into all aspects. We are in a county that is at the literal bottom of the state in graduate, testing, etc. The private school I'm at is opposite of what I was familiar with in the metro area, but we do strive to provide a significantly better education than what is available down the road. Tuition is low, most of the student population would be considered at or below the poverty line. We have almost a 100% placement in college or advanced trade school and averaged ACT scores of 25. The issue we have is that we are not nearly as well funded because of socio-economic factors as several other private schools within 30mi or so. The public school system ranks as one of the highest funded per student school districts in the state but is in the process of being taken over by the state. That puts at a disadvantage for teacher recruitment as we now rely on faculty that has already retired from public education. They can draw their state pension and collect a second check as a bonus. Rightfully so, they have paid their dues and are not looking to go above and beyond to push the students after a year or so. We operate on tuition, donations, and fundraisers mostly. We operate in the black, but it is thin. Our enrollment and the number of alumni sending their children back to our school continues to dwindle. The achievement in placement in schools and vocational careers has been opening doors for graduates to move off for much better paying jobs and to not return to an area with no industry. You are happy to see them succeed but ultimately know that's one less family to attend in the future.

I’m late to the thread but what private school in MS do you work at? I used to coach in the MAIS for a couple years before getting into the public sector.

 

[FootballDawgFan]

Probably need to talk to the following counties because they are outperforming their economically disadvantaged statistics.

Montgomery County 73rd in CCRPI at 100% ED
Worth County 67th CCRPI 100% ED
Ware County 25th CCRPI 88% ED
Echols County 32nd 85% ED
Pierce County 4th 60% ED

Don’t talk to Pike and Social Circle. They aren’t performing well relative to their ED %.

The seven districts with the lowest ED% all rank in the top 14 in CCRPI.

ED is still the strongest predictor of academic performance in schools.

 

[FootballDawgFan]

The argument for school vouchers.

Voucher systems are really bad for public schools and horrible for poor communities. You know who they are good for? People already attending private schools. Most voucher money goes to pop-up private schools that are terrible or private school students who have most likely never attended a public school.

 

[FootballDawgFan]

Honest question, is there great public school in GA in a district with a bad socioeconomic demo?

Yes, but they’re probably some kind of magnet school.

 

[UGAfanindosta]

Our last thread that devolved into a sea of educational debate because one of our own is thinking about leaving education was a fascinating read. Something @LouisianaDawg318 mentioned caught my eye and we began a private conversation that was extremely informative. So I want to start another educational thread to get some feedback on a topic close to my heart.

I have been in just about every type of school district at this point in my career. My current position is as an assistant principal at a rural school. I have taught in Clarke County and Walton County in Georgia as well as Knoxville and finally out in a rural county that is pretty unique. Education in a rural county is unlike anything I’ve seen before. While that laid back attitude can be comforting to be around at times, it permeates everything they do from academics to athletics. It is easily the most difficult job of my career and I had a few tough teaching gigs in Athens and Monroe.

There are 3 types of rural areas:

1. Fringe (1-5 miles from a larger city)
2. Distant (6-25 miles from a larger city)
3. Remote (26+ miles from a larger city)

Believe it or not, the remote rural districts fare better because they tend to keep their talent home. Distant rural areas seem to struggle because they are close enough for a 35 minute drive to the major city and that tends to drain the teaching talent. I gave a speech at the beginning of the year to my teachers that we needed to develop a Moneyball approach to teaching. We couldn’t do things the way bigger districts did them for various reasons - we needed a unique approach that was going to work for us.

@LouisianaDawg318 mentioned his district has moved to a 4 day school week in an attempt to bring teaching talent in. He feels it’s working and has been a success so far but the data will determine that fate ultimately.

With that said, if you are in a rural area and your school/district is rather successful, what is it that makes you thrive? These types of areas typically struggle to attract the top teaching talent as they are farther away and don’t pay as well. How does your district lure that talent in?

Any discussion is greatly appreciated and if you would prefer to send me a private message, that works just as well.

The 4 day school week is interesting to me but how do extracurricular activities work? How do you have practice outside of the school day if the kids are in classrooms for an extra class per day? It is intriguing but I don't know how the other items that happen outside of the school day work without the kids getting home at a significantly later time.

 

[LouisianaDawg318]

The 4 day school week is interesting to me but how do extracurricular activities work? How do you have practice outside of the school day if the kids are in classrooms for an extra class per day? It is intriguing but I don't know how the other items that happen outside of the school day work without the kids getting home at a significantly later time.

We extended each school day by 10 minutes only. We start our day at 7:46am-3:37pm. 7 period bell schedule. What we did to avoid going to school an extra hour or so a day was starting a week earlier, ending a week later. We went 5 days a week in August (beginning of school paper work & Morale is high because they just got done with summer break). We also go two 5-day weeks in April for State Testing. Most of the Federal holidays are on Mondays anyway so you’re not having to make up as many minutes as you think.

As a football coach it was advantage for us. We were able to get the kids in at 8am for workouts, able to feed them, watch film, prep for practices, and practice all by 3pm every Monday, then gives enough rest time for JV kids when we play JV Monday nights. We are 40+ miles from a big city so people who need appointments in a big city are able to do so without taking personal days. Coaches are able to get home at a decent time. Our teacher & student attendance rate as been higher. Another issue we deal with that seems small to the public but a big deal inside is a substitute shortage. I only have two somewhat reliable subs to call for coverage & 90% of the time they’re already taken. Using that Monday decreases sub usage. We’ll get more data percentages of the effectiveness of the 4-day work week by the end of the school year & I’ll make sure to share them when we do.

 

[MidgaDawg27]

Well, we have a 3rd grade retention law if ELA scores aren’t high enough.

According to the 2022 NAEP, only 32 percent of Georgia’s fourth graders are proficient or better in reading.
We lower standards to make numbers look better on state tests. They are still abysmal.
What do you do with the 2/3 that were not retained in 3rd?

 

[fprex]

According to the 2022 NAEP, only 32 percent of Georgia’s fourth graders are proficient or better in reading.
We lower standards to make numbers look better on state tests. They are still abysmal.
What do you do with the 2/3 that were not retained in 3rd?

I’m in TN. The ones that don’t pass go to summer school with hopes of raising the scores. This is very new so we’ll see how this fares moving forward.

 

[poorpreacher]

I'm late to the party. But have some thoughts. My wife has taught for 20 years, in very rural schools, currently in NE Georgia.

The home life of students is HUGE, but outside of the school's control. Acknowledging that dynamic is appropriate, but not something you can alter.

Someone already said teachers are the key to their schools success. I agree. But the problem is being successful is killing teachers. You can't ask for miracles every day, for 30-34 years. Teachers are asked to do too much, for too long.

The other day, my wife hadn't been to the restroom all day. When she finally got a chance, someone chased her down the hall,to sign a paper, that "has to be done NOW" . When my wife told her to wait 30 seconds, there was an issue.

I'd start fixing education, by giving teachers time to pee. Next, I'd lower the years for retirement to 20.

You want consistent excellence in teachers?

Give them a reason to get in, and make it reasonable to get out.

 

[poorpreacher]

Also, in terms of teachers:

The few who are fabulous are having to cover for the many who are mediocre.

Students and schools have goals. Often, when it comes down to "crunch time" veteran teachers are given extra work, to make sure all the goals are met.

So a teacher has all of their own work.....plus work that arises, when a coworker isn't being successful.

A few are propping up the whole thing. It's too much.

Also, some common sense discipline needs to be established. A kid who curses out the assistant principal, shouldn't get take out from Wendy's, from the ISS teacher.