Ukraine

[Lava-Man]

Quite a reversal from Zelensky:



"...My team and I stand ready to work under President Trump’s strong leadership to get a peace that lasts.

We are ready to work fast to end the war, and the first stages could be the release of prisoners and truce in the sky — ban on missiles, long-ranged drones, bombs on energy and other civilian infrastructure — and truce in the sea immediately, if Russia will do the same. Then we want to move very fast through all next stages and to work with the US to agree a strong final deal.

We do really value how much America has done to help Ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence. And we remember the moment when things changed when President Trump provided Ukraine with Javelins. We are grateful for this.

Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.

Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it in any time and in any convenient format. We see this agreement as a step toward greater security and solid security guarantees, and I truly hope it will work effectively."

If only he'd have said this a few days ago ... now it feels empty and desperate.

Probably because he is getting desperate.

 

[willdup]

So, as the photo op is literally wrapping up, Zelensky decides to debate ending the war "diplomatically", as had already been agreed upon...instead of discussing his issues behind closed doors (like 99% of diplomatic negotiations)? If you're going to accuse a "little bitch of a right-wing troll masquerading as a reporter" for being part of some set-up, then you'd be deluded not to note Zelensky's meal with Democrats immediately before his meeting with Trump.

Zelensky clearly lacked diplomatic tact at a critical time. He misjudged the room (or acted that way on purpose) and the Democrats can't keep their stories straight:

View embedded media

I've found no evidence that Zelensky "had lunch with Democrats" before the WH meeting. He did meet with a bipartisan group of lawmakers from the Foreign Affairs and Armed Services committees that included a number of GOP congressmen but notably DID NOT include Speaker Mike Johnson, who was invited but refused to meet with him. Hmmm.

The phantom DEM undermining lunch appears to be a fabrication.

Trump and his administration insulted Zelensky and Ukraine multiple times with scurrilous lies about nearly every aspect of the war, which I have documented many times now. Trump spoke of an ally as one would speak of a longtime enemy. He even greeted Zelensky with an insult about his attire that was magnified by the aforementioned little bitch, who also is rumored to be dating MTG, further confirming both my characterization and my suspicions regarding his role in this debacle.

I agree, it's unfortunate that Zelensky wasn't able to overcome the weeks of insults and lies, or the public statement of alignment with Russia that was delivered via the UN vote. He had agreed to sign a minerals deal that included not a single security guarantee because apparently now the US supports global democracy and human right exclusively on a pay-to-play basis. But blaming him for pressing the topic of Ukrainian security given the entire context of everything leading up to last Friday is a highly selective analysis of the situation.

 

[Georgia Knight]

the US supports global democracy and human right exclusively on a pay-to-play basis.

The idea that we should promote "global democracy" is itself a bad one, because is not an absolute good. "Human rights" is similarly a term open to abuse for ideological agendas.

But the larger point is that the US has always been selective in our foreign policy. Look at our treatment of Armenians, for example.

But blaming him for pressing the topic of Ukrainian security given the entire context of everything leading up to last Friday is a highly selective analysis of the situation.

Again, the issue isn't "pressing the topic of Ukrainian security". It's that A. he knew the purpose of last week's meeting was to sign the minerals deal and only the minerals deal - if he didn't want to do that, understandable, but then you don't take the meeting, and B. trying to debate and negotiate in front of the press.

One can believe that Zelensky's position is just and fair while recognizing that it was not the way to conduct yourself in that moment. To that he does deserve blame, because he didn't understand his job.

 

[Lava-Man]

I've found no evidence that Zelensky "had lunch with Democrats" before the WH meeting. He did meet with a bipartisan group of lawmakers from the Foreign Affairs and Armed Services committees that included a number of GOP congressmen but notably DID NOT include Speaker Mike Johnson, who was invited but refused to meet with him. Hmmm.

The phantom DEM undermining lunch appears to be a fabrication.

I think you missed my point: "If you're going to accuse a "little bitch of a right-wing troll masquerading as a reporter" for being part of some set-up, then you'd be deluded not to note Zelensky's meal with Democrats immediately before his meeting with Trump"

There is far-more evidence that Democrats got in Zelensky's ear prior to the meeting than your emotionally-charged accusation that a reporter was part of some set-up OR that it would even be needed to "sabotage" the meeting. Why would Trump be interested in sabotaging it? That makes no sense.

It's not unreasonable to argue that the Senate Democrats could have discussed the issue without the Republican Senators being in earshot. As I said above, at least there is evidence for my "conspiracy theory.

Trump and his administration insulted Zelensky and Ukraine multiple times with scurrilous lies about nearly every aspect of the war, which I have documented many times now. Trump spoke of an ally as one would speak of a longtime enemy.

An ally doesn't campaign with a political opponent in a swing state close to the election.

He even greeted Zelensky with an insult about his attire that was magnified by the aforementioned little bitch, who also is rumored to be dating MTG, further confirming both my characterization and my suspicions regarding his role in this debacle.

I agree, it's unfortunate that Zelensky wasn't able to overcome the weeks of insults and lies, or the public statement of alignment with Russia that was delivered via the UN vote. He had agreed to sign a minerals deal that included not a single security guarantee because apparently now the US supports global democracy and human right exclusively on a pay-to-play basis. But blaming him for pressing the topic of Ukrainian security given the entire context of everything leading up to last Friday is a highly selective analysis of the situation.

You repeating incorrect or without-context regurgitation of Democrat talking points doesn't make you right. It just makes you repetitive.

 

[stray]

All of this is 100% on Zelensky.

He went off script and tried to embarrass the US into doing more when he was there to sign the already negotiated deal. That was a signing ceremony, not a negotiation.

He still hasn't figured out it's not his choice, that's the problem. He went to breakfast with Democrats. They blew a bunch of hot air in his ear. He went in there with an inflated sense of bargaining power, thinking he was gonna tell Trump that he’s gonna give him security and money by acting like an entitled child.

View embedded media

View embedded media

 

[willdup]

I think you missed my point: "If you're going to accuse a "little bitch of a right-wing troll masquerading as a reporter" for being part of some set-up, then you'd be deluded not to note Zelensky's meal with Democrats immediately before his meeting with Trump"

There is far-more evidence that Democrats got in Zelensky's ear prior to the meeting than your emotionally-charged accusation that a reporter was part of some set-up OR that it would even be needed to "sabotage" the meeting. Why would Trump be interested in sabotaging it? That makes no sense.

It's not unreasonable to argue that the Senate Democrats could have discussed the issue without the Republican Senators being in earshot. As I said above, at least there is evidence for my "conspiracy theory.





An ally doesn't campaign with a political opponent in a swing state close to the election.

You repeating incorrect or without-context regurgitation of Democrat talking points doesn't make you right. It just makes you repetitive.

Nice attempted walk-back of your prior sharing of an unproven accusation as fact.

Sure, the Dems could have gotten in Zelensky's ear. You are free to speculate about that just as I am free to speculate about what Trump wanted out of the meeting last week.

I challenge you to find one other example of a reporter in the WH addressing a foreign head of state with a similar level of disrespect. It was extremely odd at best, but you are correct that it is speculation only.

The details aren't really the crux of the issue.

I believe that Trump and Vance were not acting in good faith in the lead up to that meeting and I have Trump and his administration's copious statements on the topic and UN vote with Russia as evidence. But it doesn't matter which of the two of us is correct and a continued debate about something that can't be proven is not useful.

Our Ukraine policy is simply one component of what I view as a historically destructive administration.

Initiating a trade war is going to crush US farmers first and fastest, but we will all suffer the impacts sooner rather than later. Apparently, there are no Ferris Bueller fans in the administration, and no one has ever heard of Smoot Hawley or how it helped precipitate the Great Depression.

DOGE is a joke. They are completely incapable of understanding simple accounting or contract law, but at least we get to watch Elon Musk's wacky antics as the Co-President laughs and mocks tens of thousands of fired federal employees and their families and the millions of impoverished people across the globe, some significant number of whom will die because Elon thought it would be fun to put USAID "in the wood chipper".

What's happening with the DOJ, FBI and our justice system is actually where the worst and longest lasting damage is going to occur, but I don't have the time or energy to engage on that topic tight now. Needless to say, what we've seen so far from Pam Bondi and what we can anticipate from the two completely unqualified political hacks now running the FBI portends very ill tidings for our republic.

Time for me to put myself in timeout again and take a break. I'll tidy up my contributions to a few other threads and check in from time to time until I have the stomach for another round of endless debates with no conclusions.

View embedded media

I prefer this one.

 

[stray]

Nice attempted walk-back of your prior sharing of an unproven accusation as fact.

Sure, the Dems could have gotten in Zelensky's ear. You are free to speculate about that just as I am free to speculate about what Trump wanted out of the meeting last week.

I challenge you to find one other example of a reporter in the WH addressing a foreign head of state with a similar level of disrespect. It was extremely odd at best, but you are correct that it is speculation only.

The details aren't really the crux of the issue.

I believe that Trump and Vance were not acting in good faith in the lead up to that meeting and I have Trump and his administration's copious statements on the topic and UN vote with Russia as evidence. But it doesn't matter which of the two of us is correct and a continued debate about something that can't be proven is not useful.

Our Ukraine policy is simply one component of what I view as a historically destructive administration.

Initiating a trade war is going to crush US farmers first and fastest, but we will all suffer the impacts sooner rather than later. Apparently, there are no Ferris Bueller fans in the administration, and no one has ever heard of Smoot Hawley or how it helped precipitate the Great Depression.

DOGE is a joke. They are completely incapable of understanding simple accounting or contract law, but at least we get to watch Elon Musk's wacky antics as the Co-President laughs and mocks tens of thousands of fired federal employees and their families and the millions of impoverished people across the globe, some significant number of whom will die because Elon thought it would be fun to put USAID "in the wood chipper".

What's happening with the DOJ, FBI and our justice system is actually where the worst and longest lasting damage is going to occur, but I don't have the time or energy to engage on that topic tight now. Needless to say, what we've seen so far from Pam Bondi and what we can anticipate from the two completely unqualified political hacks now running the FBI portends very ill tidings for our republic.

Time for me to put myself in timeout again and take a break. I'll tidy up my contributions to a few other threads and check in from time to time until I have the stomach for another round of endless debates with no conclusions.


I prefer this one.

View embedded media

I guess it stops before the 2 of them work with a Russian dictator to end the war? I am assuming Stalin was controlling FDR because he had the fabled "wheelchair pee tape" as well?

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Nice attempted walk-back of your prior sharing of an unproven accusation as fact.

Sure, the Dems could have gotten in Zelensky's ear. You are free to speculate about that just as I am free to speculate about what Trump wanted out of the meeting last week.

I challenge you to find one other example of a reporter in the WH addressing a foreign head of state with a similar level of disrespect. It was extremely odd at best, but you are correct that it is speculation only.

The details aren't really the crux of the issue.

I believe that Trump and Vance were not acting in good faith in the lead up to that meeting and I have Trump and his administration's copious statements on the topic and UN vote with Russia as evidence. But it doesn't matter which of the two of us is correct and a continued debate about something that can't be proven is not useful.

Our Ukraine policy is simply one component of what I view as a historically destructive administration.

Initiating a trade war is going to crush US farmers first and fastest, but we will all suffer the impacts sooner rather than later. Apparently, there are no Ferris Bueller fans in the administration, and no one has ever heard of Smoot Hawley or how it helped precipitate the Great Depression.

DOGE is a joke. They are completely incapable of understanding simple accounting or contract law, but at least we get to watch Elon Musk's wacky antics as the Co-President laughs and mocks tens of thousands of fired federal employees and their families and the millions of impoverished people across the globe, some significant number of whom will die because Elon thought it would be fun to put USAID "in the wood chipper".

What's happening with the DOJ, FBI and our justice system is actually where the worst and longest lasting damage is going to occur, but I don't have the time or energy to engage on that topic tight now. Needless to say, what we've seen so far from Pam Bondi and what we can anticipate from the two completely unqualified political hacks now running the FBI portends very ill tidings for our republic.

Time for me to put myself in timeout again and take a break. I'll tidy up my contributions to a few other threads and check in from time to time until I have the stomach for another round of endless debates with no conclusions.


I prefer this one.

View embedded media

You are a smart guy.....so surely you have noticed a pattern here. In the midst of a specific issue or negotiation (economic deal, peace negotiation, border security, DOGE, whatever)........

1) Trump says things
2) Media goes crazy, with dire predictions
3) Trump does things to follow up on exactly what he said he would do
4) Media goes crazy, with dire predictions
5) The issue gets solved, generally in a way that benefits Americans if not the World

Here we are after a month of his Presidency:

-Mexico border crossings at historic lows
-Peace in the Middle East
-Oil at several month lows
-Interest rates at several month lows
-Europeans now ponying up a ton of money for defense
-Guessing we will see peace in Europe within a month, with only EU boots on the ground and US business interests

-On Ukraine:
Looks like Zalenski has found religion, no doubt in no small part due to the fact that Trump spanked him and let it be known that his desired status quo was impossible without American support.....in fact the status quo American support was the single biggest inhibitor to a realistic peace deal between Russia and Ukraine. Predictably, the media screamed bloody murder. And I predict it will lead to peace within weeks.

On Tariffs:
What good does it do Trump to intentionally screw Americans in terms of higher prices? Take a lesson from history. The guy is obviously using tariffs to negotiate a better deal for American taxpayers, companies, and workers. Does Wall Street love it? No, because it makes the near-term much more uncertain. Hence the equity selloff and bond rally. Notwithstanding some short-term market noise, there is a "Trump put" on the markets....rooted in the fact that his goal is to improve the American economy and the spending power of Americans. Using American economic leverage without concern of being globally popular will undoubtedly improve the American economy.

It is called getting things done. With pretty remarkable speed in this case. A credit to Trump.....an indictment on the prior admin...or somewhere in between. Peace and prosperity......notwithstanding all the dire predictions, dare I say.....results.

You can bump this when Putin invades another country.
You can bump this when the economy isn't humming at year end.

 

[55dawg]

I've found no evidence that Zelensky "had lunch with Democrats" before the WH meeting. He did meet with a bipartisan group of lawmakers from the Foreign Affairs and Armed Services committees that included a number of GOP congressmen but notably DID NOT include Speaker Mike Johnson, who was invited but refused to meet with him. Hmmm.

The phantom DEM undermining lunch appears to be a fabrication.

Trump and his administration insulted Zelensky and Ukraine multiple times with scurrilous lies about nearly every aspect of the war, which I have documented many times now. Trump spoke of an ally as one would speak of a longtime enemy. He even greeted Zelensky with an insult about his attire that was magnified by the aforementioned little bitch, who also is rumored to be dating MTG, further confirming both my characterization and my suspicions regarding his role in this debacle.

I agree, it's unfortunate that Zelensky wasn't able to overcome the weeks of insults and lies, or the public statement of alignment with Russia that was delivered via the UN vote. He had agreed to sign a minerals deal that included not a single security guarantee because apparently now the US supports global democracy and human right exclusively on a pay-to-play basis. But blaming him for pressing the topic of Ukrainian security given the entire context of everything leading up to last Friday is a highly selective analysis of the situation.

Take Murphys statement. Consider Z reneged (for 3rd time) on the deal that was agreed on BEFORE he flew over. Then just add a little common sense. Fairly easy to conclude the Dems made an effort to sabotage the agreement. Dems want Trump to fail more than they want America to succeed.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Take Murphys statement. Consider Z reneged (for 3rd time) on the deal that was agreed on BEFORE he flew over. Then just add a little common sense. Fairly easy to conclude the Dems made an effort to sabotage the agreement. Dems want Trump to fail more than they want America to succeed.

your last sentence is the most true. In a bizarro world where someone other than Trump was doing the exact same thing.....he would be universally praised by democrats. Ukraine being the most obvious example, with the apparent desired outcome being the continued slaughter of millions in an unwinnable war?????? WTF?

 

[willdup]

You are a smart guy.....so surely you have noticed a pattern here. In the midst of a specific issue or negotiation (economic deal, peace negotiation, border security, DOGE, whatever)........

1) Trump says things
2) Media goes crazy, with dire predictions
3) Trump does things to follow up on exactly what he said he would do
4) Media goes crazy, with dire predictions
5) The issue gets solved, generally in a way that benefits Americans if not the World

Here we are after a month of his Presidency:

-Mexico border crossings at historic lows
-Peace in the Middle East
-Oil at several month lows
-Interest rates at several month lows
-Europeans now ponying up a ton of money for defense
-Guessing we will see peace in Europe within a month, with only EU boots on the ground and US business interests

-On Ukraine:
Looks like Zalenski has found religion, no doubt in no small part due to the fact that Trump spanked him and let it be known that his desired status quo was impossible without American support.....in fact the status quo American support was the single biggest inhibitor to a realistic peace deal between Russia and Ukraine.

On Tariffs:
What good does it do Trump to intentionally screw Americans in terms of higher prices? Take a lesson from history. The guy is obviously using tariffs to negotiate a better deal for American taxpayers, companies, and workers. Does Wall Street love it? No, because it makes the near-term much more uncertain. Hence the equity selloff and bond rally.

It is called getting things done. With pretty remarkable speed in this case. A credit to Trump.....an indictment on the prior admin...or somewhere in between. Peace and prosperity......notwithstanding all the dire predictions, dare I say.....results.

You can bump this when Putin invades another country.
You can bump this when the economy isn't humming at year end.

There is not "peace in the Middle East." There is a current cease fire. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Tariffs are going to hurt our economy. Farmers first, but the rest of us will follow quickly.

Here is Trump's man trying to explain how tariffs aren't inflationary. This would be embarrassing if it wasn't so terrifying. Are they really this dumb?



I don't care how we get there on Ukraine. If we are willing to backstop Ukrainian security guarantees with teeth and stop the war, good for Trump. I agree that getting Europe to step up is a good and proper outcome. I remain concerned that we are foregoing our alliances with the democratic countries of Europe for a closer working relationship with a country and a leader who want nothing more than to harm us. What trump says about Ukraine and Russia tonight will be interesting.

 

[Georgia Knight]

Here is Trump's man trying to explain how tariffs aren't inflationary. This would be embarrassing if it wasn't so terrifying. Are they really this dumb?

View embedded media

He's technically not wrong. Inflation is a general increase in prices as the result of currency depreciation, tariffs aren't that. They do increase costs, which typically has an impact on prices, but it's not technically inflation.

Now do average consumers care about the source of higher prices? Most will not. But he was technically correct in his position.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

There is not "peace in the Middle East." There is a current cease fire. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Tariffs are going to hurt our economy. Farmers first, but the rest of us will follow quickly.

Here is Trump's man trying to explain how tariffs aren't inflationary. This would be embarrassing if it wasn't so terrifying. Are they really this dumb?

View embedded media

I don't care how we get there on Ukraine. If we are willing to backstop Ukrainian security guarantees with teeth and stop the war, good for Trump. I agree that getting Europe to step up is a good and proper outcome. I remain concerned that we are foregoing our alliances with the democratic countries of Europe for a closer working relationship with a country and a leader who want nothing more than to harm us. What trump says about Ukraine and Russia tonight will be interesting.

True to form in a reply to my post about how all the Trump criticism is rooted in prediction rather than fact / results.......

Again......bump this in several months when we don't have peace in the middle east and/or Europe. Something the Biden admin failed miserably in securing.

And bump this in 3rd or 4th quarter when inflation isn't tamed, interest rates aren't lower, and the economy in general isn't doing much better in terms of broad-based prosperity (versus government and big tech prosperity only)

As for Lutnick: I will gladly accept the leadership of the former CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald over the academic and music background of guys like Jared Bernstein.....who literally couldn't explain how monetary and fiscal policy works together in terms of the Fed and Treasury bond issuances and money printing.

 

[willdup]

He's technically not wrong. Inflation is a general increase in prices as the result of currency depreciation, tariffs aren't that. They do increase costs, which typically has an impact on prices, but it's not technically inflation.

Now do average consumers care about the source of higher prices? Most will not. But he was technically correct in his position.

I think you are making excuses for a weak attempt to avoid a difficult topic.

 

[Georgia Knight]

I think you are making excuses for a weak attempt to avoid a difficult topic.

I'm not making any excuses, I am simply providing the definition of inflation.

As I said, I don't think average consumers are likely to care about definitions, but Lutnick was "correct" in his answers.

I also recognize the game that's being played, Lutnick is out there having to defend policies that increase prices. That's not a position anyone wants to be in, even if you agree with the policy (and in this case, I think Lutnick probably does given past statements.) But even if you agree with the end results of the policy, saying "your damn right we're raising prices on consumers" is not a position you want to be in on television.

My default setting for all of politics, even politics I agree with, is very cynical because the nature of democracy requires cynical thinking.

 

[HarryDawg'95]

You are a smart guy.....so surely you have noticed a pattern here. In the midst of a specific issue or negotiation (economic deal, peace negotiation, border security, DOGE, whatever)........

1) Trump says things
2) Media goes crazy, with dire predictions
3) Trump does things to follow up on exactly what he said he would do
4) Media goes crazy, with dire predictions
5) The issue gets solved, generally in a way that benefits Americans if not the World

Here we are after a month of his Presidency:

-Mexico border crossings at historic lows
-Peace in the Middle East
-Oil at several month lows
-Interest rates at several month lows
-Europeans now ponying up a ton of money for defense
-Guessing we will see peace in Europe within a month, with only EU boots on the ground and US business interests

-On Ukraine:
Looks like Zalenski has found religion, no doubt in no small part due to the fact that Trump spanked him and let it be known that his desired status quo was impossible without American support.....in fact the status quo American support was the single biggest inhibitor to a realistic peace deal between Russia and Ukraine. Predictably, the media screamed bloody murder. And I predict it will lead to peace within weeks.

On Tariffs:
What good does it do Trump to intentionally screw Americans in terms of higher prices? Take a lesson from history. The guy is obviously using tariffs to negotiate a better deal for American taxpayers, companies, and workers. Does Wall Street love it? No, because it makes the near-term much more uncertain. Hence the equity selloff and bond rally. Notwithstanding some short-term market noise, there is a "Trump put" on the markets....rooted in the fact that his goal is to improve the American economy and the spending power of Americans. Using American economic leverage without concern of being globally popular will undoubtedly improve the American economy.

It is called getting things done. With pretty remarkable speed in this case. A credit to Trump.....an indictment on the prior admin...or somewhere in between. Peace and prosperity......notwithstanding all the dire predictions, dare I say.....results.

You can bump this when Putin invades another country.
You can bump this when the economy isn't humming at year end.

I have read some Trump fan fiction on this board, but this is truly a master class. Bravo, sir.

 

[Lava-Man]

Nice attempted walk-back of your prior sharing of an unproven accusation as fact.

I didn't walk back anything, merely re-iterated my point: You may be right, but have nothing but conjecture. My point may not be right, but at least it's based on reporting from places like the NY Post



...which is why reporters like Marc Thiessen believe what Zelensky did was inexplicable:

I challenge you to find one other example of a reporter in the WH addressing a foreign head of state with a similar level of disrespect. It was extremely odd at best, but you are correct that it is speculation only.

Many reporters have behaved badly the past decade. Why is disrespecting a foreign head of state any worse than doing the same to POTUS?

I believe that Trump and Vance were not acting in good faith in the lead up to that meeting and I have Trump and his administration's copious statements on the topic and UN vote with Russia as evidence. But it doesn't matter which of the two of us is correct and a continued debate about something that can't be proven is not useful.

Fine, but I still see no logical reason for Trump to blow up a potential win, at that point. The same thing could have been done (had they wanted it) without having Zelensky in the White House. What makes more sense are the D's trying remove one for Trump. Surely, you see the logic in that?

Time for me to put myself in timeout again and take a break. I'll tidy up my contributions to a few other threads and check in from time to time until I have the stomach for another round of endless debates with no conclusions.

Wish you wouldn't.

 

[Lava-Man]

I have read some Trump fan fiction on this board, but this is truly a master class. Bravo, sir.

Do you ever provide anything of substance? Or are you only capable of useless snark? You're doing the very thing you mock others for on this board.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

I have read some Trump fan fiction on this board, but this is truly a master class. Bravo, sir.

Please specifically call out the fiction.

 

[HarryDawg'95]

“President Trump assures Americans that Vladimir Putin wants “peace” in Ukraine, but the key question is what kind of peace? The answer seems to be a peace of subjugation in which Ukraine is left to defend itself with no outside help until Russia decides to invade again.


That’s the implication of Thursday’s comments from Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, that the Kremlin won’t tolerate Western European troops on Ukrainian soil. “We see no room for compromise,” Mr. Lavrov told reporters Thursday at a press conference in Moscow. The presence of European forces in Ukraine would mean the “undisguised involvement of NATO countries in a war against the Russian Federation. It’s impossible to allow this.”


This is no surprise, as Russia responds to Mr. Trump’s pressure on Ukraine by increasing its demands as part of any agreement with Ukraine. Mr. Trump has already conceded to Mr. Putin’s demand that Ukraine not be allowed to join NATO after the war ends. Now Russia is rejecting the French-British Plan B, which would put some of their troops in Ukraine after the war, though not under NATO auspices.


If Mr. Putin really wants peace, why would he object to a modest deployment that poses no threat to Russia? The answer is that his postwar goal is to leave Ukraine in a weakened state that isn’t aligned with the West and is ripe for his next imperial assault. He wants to own or dominate Ukraine, full stop.


Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to squeeze Volodymyr Zelensky. The latest report is that U.S. officials want Ukraine’s President to commit to an immediate cease-fire when he signs a mineral-rights deal with the U.S. Mr. Trump is also withholding intelligence that is crucial to Ukraine’s defense. If Mr. Trump wants to end the killing, why is he withholding intel that will encourage Russia to escalate and kill more Ukrainian civilians and soldiers?”


Wall Street Journal Editorial Board - who endorsed Trump.

Just because you voted for Trump, doesn’t mean you need to tie yourself into a pretzel to justify every single thing he does. His strategy in Ukraine is wrong.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

“President Trump assures Americans that Vladimir Putin wants “peace” in Ukraine, but the key question is what kind of peace? The answer seems to be a peace of subjugation in which Ukraine is left to defend itself with no outside help until Russia decides to invade again.


That’s the implication of Thursday’s comments from Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, that the Kremlin won’t tolerate Western European troops on Ukrainian soil. “We see no room for compromise,” Mr. Lavrov told reporters Thursday at a press conference in Moscow. The presence of European forces in Ukraine would mean the “undisguised involvement of NATO countries in a war against the Russian Federation. It’s impossible to allow this.”


This is no surprise, as Russia responds to Mr. Trump’s pressure on Ukraine by increasing its demands as part of any agreement with Ukraine. Mr. Trump has already conceded to Mr. Putin’s demand that Ukraine not be allowed to join NATO after the war ends. Now Russia is rejecting the French-British Plan B, which would put some of their troops in Ukraine after the war, though not under NATO auspices.


If Mr. Putin really wants peace, why would he object to a modest deployment that poses no threat to Russia? The answer is that his postwar goal is to leave Ukraine in a weakened state that isn’t aligned with the West and is ripe for his next imperial assault. He wants to own or dominate Ukraine, full stop.


Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to squeeze Volodymyr Zelensky. The latest report is that U.S. officials want Ukraine’s President to commit to an immediate cease-fire when he signs a mineral-rights deal with the U.S. Mr. Trump is also withholding intelligence that is crucial to Ukraine’s defense. If Mr. Trump wants to end the killing, why is he withholding intel that will encourage Russia to escalate and kill more Ukrainian civilians and soldiers?”


Wall Street Journal Editorial Board - who endorsed Trump.

Just because you voted for Trump, doesn’t mean you need to tie yourself into a pretzel to justify every single thing he does. His strategy in Ukraine is wrong.

And your strategy?

 

[HarryDawg'95]

And your strategy?

I would propose that the master negotiator (compromised Russian asset?) put more pressure on Russia - you know, the country that invaded Ukraine and is run by a murderous dictator. Peace is everyone’s goal - duh - but not by simply handing everything to Russia and forcing Ukraine to capitulate.

 

[willdup]

I would propose that the master negotiator (compromised Russian asset?) put more pressure on Russia - you know, the country that invaded Ukraine and is run by a murderous dictator. Peace is everyone’s goal - duh - but not by simply handing everything to Russia and forcing Ukraine to capitulate.

Getting Americans to believe that Ukraine is irredeemably corrupt and that Russia is winning the war has been a very effective, multi-year psy-op.

This is an interesting read on the topic.

Thread by @adamscochran on Thread Reader App

@adamscochran: 1/31 Meet project "Good Old USA" the now unsealed DoJ file on the Russian influence in the US to sway opinion on the war in Ukraine. Something Trump has bought into hook-line and sinker. It...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[Moosefish]

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Apparently the tweet went away. Here's another from a better source

 

[HarryDawg'95]

Apparently the tweet went away. Here's another from a better source

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This is good to hear. Good to see Trump seeing things my way😉

 

[MarcusBarcus]

You are a smart guy.....so surely you have noticed a pattern here. In the midst of a specific issue or negotiation (economic deal, peace negotiation, border security, DOGE, whatever)........

1) Trump says things
2) Media goes crazy, with dire predictions
3) Trump does things to follow up on exactly what he said he would do
4) Media goes crazy, with dire predictions
5) The issue gets solved, generally in a way that benefits Americans if not the World

Here we are after a month of his Presidency:

-Mexico border crossings at historic lows
-Peace in the Middle East
-Oil at several month lows
-Interest rates at several month lows
-Europeans now ponying up a ton of money for defense
-Guessing we will see peace in Europe within a month, with only EU boots on the ground and US business interests

-On Ukraine:
Looks like Zalenski has found religion, no doubt in no small part due to the fact that Trump spanked him and let it be known that his desired status quo was impossible without American support.....in fact the status quo American support was the single biggest inhibitor to a realistic peace deal between Russia and Ukraine. Predictably, the media screamed bloody murder. And I predict it will lead to peace within weeks.

On Tariffs:
What good does it do Trump to intentionally screw Americans in terms of higher prices? Take a lesson from history. The guy is obviously using tariffs to negotiate a better deal for American taxpayers, companies, and workers. Does Wall Street love it? No, because it makes the near-term much more uncertain. Hence the equity selloff and bond rally. Notwithstanding some short-term market noise, there is a "Trump put" on the markets....rooted in the fact that his goal is to improve the American economy and the spending power of Americans. Using American economic leverage without concern of being globally popular will undoubtedly improve the American economy.

It is called getting things done. With pretty remarkable speed in this case. A credit to Trump.....an indictment on the prior admin...or somewhere in between. Peace and prosperity......notwithstanding all the dire predictions, dare I say.....results.

You can bump this when Putin invades another country.
You can bump this when the economy isn't humming at year end.

 

[MarcusBarcus]